The most overused strawman on these forums: "RNG is RNG"
" If you want to know I'll tell you [but i guess you don't want to know, because it's pretty common knowledge anyway]. A regular dice is 6 sided, right. Each time you roll it, you have a 1/6 chance to roll any of the numbers. It's not 'completely random' because the dice does not have a 7 on it. It cannot roll 83, it cannot roll 47, it cannot roll a chicken. It rolls 1-6. So a dice roll is not 'purely' random, it is providing 'known odds' to roll a specific set of numbers. That it might roll anything from 1-6 is the 'random element'. But, even then, over time, the random will be 'predictable', someone rolling a dice 500 times will 'average' 3.5 per dice-roll. Even though you cannot even roll the average. You'll never roll a 3.5. But 3.5 is the predictable average. So if you're fighting a monster with 350HP with a 1-6 damage weapon, you can 'confidently' 'predict' that it will take 100 hits to kill the monster, and plan for this, and this is what will happen give or take a tiny % standard margin of error. If you then make your dice 1,000 sided - can roll anything from 1-1,000, then, suddenly, a monster with 350HP has no viable means of determining a 'confident' amount of strikes to defeat it, because the 'range' is so great without altering the desired result stat (monster HP). One guy could still take 20 unlucky hits, where as the lucky player might just take one hit. Because you have altered the parameters of the predictable random, you have also effected the 'confidently predictable' nature of the result. So if everyone had to kill a 350HP monster with 1-6 weapon, everyone would have the exact same (or near as makes no difference) experience. But if everyone had to kill a 350HP monster with a 1-1,000 weapon, everyone would have wildly differing results - it would be much more 'lottery-like' as to 'how easy' the encounter was. Therefore, RNG in PoE is entirely the product of the 'method of implementation' and that this context of 'Random' is not the same as another method of implementing 'random'. By simply stating RNG is RNG, regardless of 'method of implementation' - is akin to saying 'women is women' every time someone asks you if you liked your last date - it basically just suggests your someone of low intelligence. . |
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"Indeed it cannot. However, tautologies (as rhetorical device) don't exactly have a sterling reputation, either. "You go to far with these. Self-awareness? Yeah, I'd agree to that one. But we're talking about a form of entertainment here; responsibility is looking at it as a job, not a game. No one has a duty to play. "In all seriousness, I'm looking for both. I find the experience most interesting and truly interactive when I am trying to effect the game, and the game is trying to effect me. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Feb 3, 2014, 2:03:15 PM
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Charans post was quite right in saying "RNG is RNG" can be used as a strawman in some cases but in other cases it is not a strawman.
When "RNG is RNG" is used to attack a position that is not in reality about RNG, but is for example about drop rates, then it will be a straw man. Because it is not the correct part of the argument that makes it a strawman, it is the use of it. In fact, any good strawman will use a true statement to overcome the position they conjure to defeat. Tautologies are by definition always true so they are well suited for that purpose, except that they are very transparent. I think we both know that when someone says "RNG is RNG" in a topic of someone complaining that drop rates are set too low, then they intend to say something along the line of: "Do not blame RNG." So even though all they literally added was nothing except "X = X" which has no information, they did infact invisibly suggest more, an attack on a position different from the one suggested in the original first post. Of course sometimes even though a poster posts a thread about what he thinks is drop rates, it may in reality be more about his experience of RNG in which case it would make sense to write "RNG is RNG", and it would not be a strawman. TL;DR "RNG is RNG" is always a tautology. Tautologies can also be used as a part of a strawman. I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all. Last edited by Crackmonster#7709 on Feb 3, 2014, 2:31:52 PM
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" And how many people do you think complain about drop rates because they aren't finding and/or expect to find specific items? |
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the new overused strawman on these forums shall be "prng is prng"
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" Is it going too far to ask players to step back and take a solidly honest look in the mirror to attempt to determine what, if any, amount of responsibility they legitimately hold regarding whatever issue they are more than ready to blame on the game or developers? Really? Maybe I am equating "self-awareness" too much with "responsibility" and "accountability", but I see them as all part of the same package. I like your line that "no one has a duty to play", and posit that those that are not enjoying their experiences in PoE may want to remind themselves of your statement. Your bolded text is what I would define as "Playing Path of Exile" and is, IMO, the "intended" way for us to play the game. I agree with your assessment, the "push-pull" moments where everything seems to fall into place and the game "just works" put a huge smile on my face, while making my palms sweat, my pulse quicken, and my arsehole pucker. EDIT: Was going to reply to the personal attack on my intellect posted by Crackmonster below, and thought better of it as it would not add in any constructive way to the line of discussion above. Last edited by Sinnesteuer#7507 on Feb 3, 2014, 3:08:16 PM
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" The great irony about this post is that you are victim to your own subjectivity. All you said in this post was: "Everything is subjective, since we are a blank slate when we are born: Therefore i see more clearly than you that do not realize your own position so i am more right." Completely useless in a discussion. What you do not seem to fathom is that there are people out there who look ahead(into the future), backwards(into the past), and to the sides(through other peoples experiences). You believe so strongly that people you think you understand better than cannot see past the end of their own nose, you believe it so strongly that you fail to recognize those who may be able to and in doing that you fall victim to that very thing yourself. For example, you may use a non-subjective argument that average prices of X item is worth Y of average play grinding hours to estimate the rarity of these things. That is very real, you can monitor the overall statistics and they give a much better impression than merely how often you yourself found X item. I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all. Last edited by Crackmonster#7709 on Feb 3, 2014, 3:04:06 PM
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GGG shall be GGG.
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" A great many. I think the number that complain because they do not find "enough" of anything is probably near 100% as that is the basic principle of cause and effect. However, many people do not care if they find a specific item, so long as they find something they can trade for those specific items. I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all. Last edited by Crackmonster#7709 on Feb 3, 2014, 3:02:40 PM
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ZiggyD is the Labyrinth of streamers, some like it, some dont, but GGG will make sure to push it down ur throat to make you like it
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