So frustrating that the same mistake is repeated in every D2 clone
Spoiler
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Boem wrote:
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This may be a little too tin-foil hatty. To understand GGG's idea of hardcore and perhaps the direction in general the game will be going take a look at act 3x or w/e they call it. It introduced harder, larger areas and some really hard but ingenious mobs, looking at you corpse barfing avians and those large chicken things that explode on death, some really hard unique mobs(lightning trapper in 2 lvl sceptre of god) and dominus is the best and most interesting boss in the game. Even their quests are better like the library quest for example. Simple item hunt but all the shit needed for it is in a high level zone with great monster density and the quest rewards feel really good. If these are any indicators about what future content will be and its quality I don't think supporters have to worry about 'git rekt'. Now if they would just make the item hunt more fun and rewarding.
My point was that GGG is baiting gamers that this particular game is not designed for under false pretense.
Like "crafting" your own gear etc.
When you first enter the game you look at the system and go "omg this is absolutely brilliant"
And then you realize the drop rates, that it is in fact a gambling system etc.
The same with the skill-tree and build customization. At first glance they marvel a sort of excellence, it is only at a later point in time when you acquire more game knowledge that you can see true these issue's. And most players have already contributed by that time.
The lack of tutorial and Dev based information around these subject's only enforce this line of thought. By the time a player realizes the flaws in the system they might have already invested a lot, so they continue to play in hopes of getting a return.
Just look at some of the responses you get from 1-year old supporters. Some are only just realizing how the game actually operates.(some might take longer because of the way RNG operates, a luck streak only enforces that the game is very well designed, the opposite is also true)
"Git rekt" might be the wrong term for this economical strategy. But i am sure they get a lot of cash from players that drop out after the realization of how the system actually functions.
So in that sense it is quite brilliant since they fish additional cash from a player-base the game was not designed for.
Call it tin-foil-hat if you wish. I look at the forums a lot and i also understand the depth of the game and how it functions both in end-game and pre end-game. And a lot suggest's players are baited with the "false promise" of certain functional systems. While in reality these functional systems only work for a certain mind-set of gamers.
(the crafting system is a perfect example of this, it is fully functional, but only for a selected few of people playing the game, while gated for everybody else)
If anything it is brilliant from GGG to do this.
I would think if the %drop rates would become visible in a tutorial of some kind and then linked with crafting and how crafting is actually "gambling" a lot of people would not even attempt to play this game :').
No I get what you're saying and why a person might feel that way. I just don't agree with your false pretense argument. I think GGG has been open with who they and their game are and who their intended demographic is. Like another person has said the false pretense you state is probably set up not from this game but other games that cater to the more casual crowd. Of course I'm assuming people who spend real money on the game do so only after they have a thorough understanding of it. And I'm sure you're right they might catch some 5-20$ here and there from someone who will only later find out this isn't their cup of tea.
I already proposed an addition to our orb arsenal.
An orb (let us call it "orb of derandomisation", OoD ) that could "lock" a single affix line on an item for one crafting turnaround.
For example : having a helmet with health, tri resists and two other weak affixes, one could invest four OoDs and then use Chaos orb on the item, hoping to get something better instead of those two weak affixes, while keeping the four wanted in place for this one iteration.
The rarity of OoD would then had to be determined, the closer the drop chance to zero, the smaller the impact on the overall economy.
No I get what you're saying and why a person might feel that way. I just don't agree with your false pretense argument. I think GGG has been open with who they and their game are and who their intended demographic is. Like another person has said the false pretense you state is probably set up not from this game but other games that cater to the more casual crowd. Of course I'm assuming people who spend real money on the game do so only after they have a thorough understanding of it. And I'm sure you're right they might catch some 5-20$ here and there from someone who will only later find out this isn't their cup of tea.
In reality they release almost no DEV information about game mechanics/game direction.
This is a valid strategy to keep the community "guessing".
It also makes sure a lot of the community make assumptions that are suited to there own needs, only to later find out there assumptions where wrong.
Keep in mind, i don't blame/flame GGG for opting for this strategy. It's a very profitable system they use.
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
No I get what you're saying and why a person might feel that way. I just don't agree with your false pretense argument. I think GGG has been open with who they and their game are and who their intended demographic is. Like another person has said the false pretense you state is probably set up not from this game but other games that cater to the more casual crowd. Of course I'm assuming people who spend real money on the game do so only after they have a thorough understanding of it. And I'm sure you're right they might catch some 5-20$ here and there from someone who will only later find out this isn't their cup of tea.
In reality they release almost no DEV information about game mechanics/game direction.
This is a valid strategy to keep the community "guessing".
It also makes sure a lot of the community make assumptions that are suited to there own needs, only to later find out there assumptions where wrong.
Keep in mind, i don't blame/flame GGG for opting for this strategy. It's a very profitable system they use.
And that is why I said what I did in my first response to your idea in regards to looking at a3x for an idea of what GGG has for 'hardcore' and their game in general.
I mean I understand some of the things people are saying to disagree, but...
Diablo 2 made gems, set, unique, runes drop more reliably
Diablo 3 abandoned the auction house and increased drop rates of unqiues
Torchlight 2 was marketed where they said 'you will get awesome items, you wont have to grind for them, it's more fun this way'
The collective fanbase of all those games which I have played for years has come to the conclusion that better itemization, better variety, better drop rates equals a more fun gameplay experience, this is a process that has never gone in reverse in any of these games and has always been warmly welcomed by generally everyone.
It's just a lesson GGG has to learn, don't ignore the userbase! The userbase of this game probably has massive overlap with those games mentioned above so it's just short sighted to take the approach they're taking.
userbase in PoE (large chunk of it) sits on a large nail while playing and they enjoy it. They won't have any other way. Stop arguing with them, it's pointless.
Also, RoS is not out yet and from what I played on public test server I can only conclude that people will want AH back because loot is still shit. Having more legendary items with the wrong rolls doesn't solve or improve anything. Who the hell wants Mempo without crit chance? It is like shavrones wrappings without "chaos damage doesn't bypass ES" .
As for TL2, loot is just a bunch of junk, too many stats to roll, like in PoE. Getting a good loot means getting a loot that you can use and that can be an upgrade. Most upgrades I found in TL2 came from gambling trader. PoE has better loot than TL2 in my opinion.
"Path of Exile be a online Action RPG set up in tha dark fantasy ghetto of Wraeclast. Well shiiiit..."
- Uzicorn, for teh children.
Efficient farming can get at least 20chaos+ an hour, that is stable income without RNG included, which can put couple chaos/exalts on top. On standard that is at least 1 Exalt an hour.
Now take one "good" item as an example: new Kaom's. That is around 30-35+- Exalts, which makes around 30hours, even less of farming.
Exaggerated statements won't stand ground.
First off, exalts were 36c+ in domination for a great portion of the league. They are/were 30 in nemesis. We aren't using rates from the league populated by 2.5% of the playerbase. Second 20 chaos per hour is blistering farming speed and is never really obtained by anyone. There is too much time lost to stash sorting for chaos recipe/identifying items, acquiring wisdom scrolls, etc. Doesn't even include the amount that must be spent on wisdom scrolls to efficiently farm, and zoning to lab or the time spent or waiting for bosses to finish talking at you. Thousands might have been an exaggeration, but I meant thousands to get one to actually drop.
Anarchy/Onslaught T shirt
Domination/Nemesis T shirt
Tempest/War Bands T shirt
There is nothing hardcore in a difficulty spike that lets you face-roll the next difficulty 2 act's.
If anything it is poor balance and bad implementation. This has been commented upon even by a lot of the old alpha members as a very poorly optimized/badly balanced area.
It also serves as no indicator of game direction since it is totally out of tune with the other content.
And an increase in numbers is rarely seen by gamers as hardcore or challenging. If anything it results in more gear checks/dependency in this game. As a result act 1 and act 2 in the next difficulty are considered boring due to lack of challenge. (bad gaming experience again)
And the initial grind instead of being spread out over 3 act's is condensed to one act. (more bad gaming experience due to unneeded repetition)
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
There is nothing hardcore in a difficulty spike that lets you face-roll the next difficulty 2 act's.
If anything it is poor balance and bad implementation. This has been commented upon even by a lot of the old alpha members as a very poorly optimized/badly balanced area.
It also serves as no indicator of game direction since it is totally out of tune with the other content.
And an increase in numbers is rarely seen by gamers as hardcore or challenging. If anything it results in more gear checks/dependency in this game. As a result act 1 and act 2 in the next difficulty are considered boring due to lack of challenge. (bad gaming experience again)
And the initial grind instead of being spread out over 3 act's is condensed to one act. (more bad gaming experience due to unneeded repetition)
I'm not arguing any of those points, just simply suggesting that in the absence of GGG saying exactly what they're going to release it can be fairly safe to assume to some limited extent future trends in past ones, at least in terms of conjecturing.
I know bro :) it was just the "tin-foil-hat" remark that made my eyes twitch and made me reply :p.
the things i write down here can be observed by anybody in this community :).
They are not really assumptions, since evidence is everywhere in the forums that suggest this is the current case. And my own personal experience only amplify this.
Luckely i am not effected by this because i play to play a game in my spare time :).
I contributed to the game after i already considered i had spend enough time in it to make the donation valid. But some people might not apply that strategy of thinking and feel cheated or "fished :p".
I simply enjoy conversations dude, even on a forum :), it's always cool to hear another person's opinion on something.
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
I really enjoy the crafting system. Sure if your preconception is "I have to get a BiS item" then you are going to have some let downs, but to craft a very viable item really doesn't take a lot of currency. Not to mention if you're looking for a mirror worthy item or a 6L then it certainly should take 1000's of currency.
PoE has said on multiple occasions that their intended demographic is a more hardcore crowd, and that's awesome! In terms of game time I would probably be labeled a casual, but for the time I do get to play I want a game that isn't super easy with no thought invested into your build. This is the first ARPG I've really enjoyed since D2 (D3 was pathetic with it's 0 customization and now going to BoA) and honestly I think it surpasses D2. D2 was an awesome game for it's time because there was nothing like it, but when you factor in all the hacking, duping, cheating etc. I think PoE is the better game.
Do we have any Dark Souls players in here? That's hardcore difficulty =) (amazing pvp too)
