So frustrating that the same mistake is repeated in every D2 clone

"

1988288 wrote:

"

HeroOfExile wrote:

i didnt start insulting ppl.

read this thread again with care.

It doesn't matter who started it. You are insulting others, that is what matters.

Now, how about you tell us the "core problem" of PoE? Or was it just empty talk?

@Cyborg, your highest character is 52 and complaining about acquiring items? Like, you don't get needed gear on the hit to steamroll through content?

Pretty sure my list of characters is enough to complain about acquiring items. It's a drag. Long term the game is fairly boring because it can take thousands of hours to even get one item, let alone link it. Races are the only thing I still really enjoy and there are far to few of them, especially for particular timezones.

"

1988288 wrote:

I haven't said anything like that.

You're arguing so vehemently that the game doesn't need to change, that suggests you think it's currently perfect.

"

1988288 wrote:

"Walk the Blizzards way and make the game as casual as you can - more profit."

I never said anything about making it casual. It's about understanding your core audience and working to deliver the optimal gameplay experience that also serves your business needs. I'd argue that GGG currently aren't delivering on that.

"

1988288 wrote:

Community has done huge job of finding out, explaining, posting game mechanics, general things, etc.
If one won't bother with researching - they have no right to complain about that they don't understand.
Both things are exciting - searching for mechanics, and researching already done jobs. This might be something alien to new generation gamers.

The only loser in this scenario is GGG.





Just to reiterate my point. Early to early-late game itemisation is not fun. It needs to be easier to find and craft items that can make you get through the game and into maps. Perfect and very rare gear is great as it is as it gives people something to work towards if that's what they enjoy.

"

Boem wrote:

"

Cyborg you know exactly what you are talking about, and a lot of us hardcore 24/7 grinders feel the same. We are burned out on hundreds of hours without reward.

It's funny how every time you state your opinion disagreeing with something, some hatemonger comes in and attacks you, just to find out that they haven't even beaten Dom in Merc with a single char yet.

nGio no offense but your arguments get devaluated by the knee jab at the end of them :').
There is absolutely no reason for that knee jab to prove your argument imo.

I still agree with most of what you say, but you also have a habit of responding to bait :).
Responding to bait almost never ends well :D.

"

Seriously? GGG made the game just to suite a handful of hardcores? No they made the game to make money off micro transactions, more players=more money. Please stop with all this Hardcore BS

Hardcore has many different meanings to different people. For PoE it apparently means
"time investment", in the sense that if you invest 2 years of play, you might eventually make 1/2 perfectly geared characters.

The question then becomes, can GGG improve upon this fact to get more revenue going? My answer would be yes, if they are willing to do so.

But i think they will be reluctant to do this as long as they do not need $$$. And people are getting fished constantly, drawn in under false pretense of replay-ability and customized builds. By the time they realize it is more or less an illusion they have already contributed.

At that point, that player can "git rekt" sort of speak, since they already contributed and the next fish can be baited.

It's brilliant in a sense that it keeps server requirements low and keeps the revenue quite high for the investment.

But that's just my personal opinion, i still love the game since i love to play harsh games and i have shit loads of time to spend on them. However i do sympathies with people who do not have this luxury.

This may be a little too tin-foil hatty. To understand GGG's idea of hardcore and perhaps the direction in general the game will be going take a look at act 3x or w/e they call it. It introduced harder, larger areas and some really hard but ingenious mobs, looking at you corpse barfing avians and those large chicken things that explode on death, some really hard unique mobs(lightning trapper in 2 lvl sceptre of god) and dominus is the best and most interesting boss in the game. Even their quests are better like the library quest for example. Simple item hunt but all the shit needed for it is in a high level zone with great monster density and the quest rewards feel really good. If these are any indicators about what future content will be and its quality I don't think supporters have to worry about 'git rekt'. Now if they would just make the item hunt more fun and rewarding.

Haha. I clicked on the GGG dev post icon. Joke's on me.

"

iamacyborg wrote:

"

1988288 wrote:

I haven't said anything like that.

You're arguing so vehemently that the game doesn't need to change, that suggests you think it's currently perfect.

Citation needed.

I'm arguing against your position, as you're saying itemization is a pain in early-game and other nonsense.

"

1988288 wrote:

"Walk the Blizzards way and make the game as casual as you can - more profit."

"

iamacyborg wrote:

I never said anything about making it casual. It's about understanding your core audience and working to deliver the optimal gameplay experience that also serves your business needs. I'd argue that GGG currently aren't delivering on that.

GGG is adding new recipes and rewards to help progression. You don't need godly gear to get to maps, even less to get to Merciless, though I can see the argument that difficulty curve for a3x is a bit too high (compared to previous zones).

"

Just to reiterate my point. Early to early-late game itemisation is not fun. It needs to be easier to find and craft items that can make you get through the game and into maps. Perfect and very rare gear is great as it is as it gives people something to work towards if that's what they enjoy.

Getting through game isn't that hard, gets tricky at Cruel Dominus and couple parts of Act2-3.
Though bad RNG can play a role, but it can be countered with decisions as keeping secondary gear for certain areas, or adjusting passive-tree accordingly to what you're lacking.

It might not be as steamroll as single-player games, mmo's, where you get according gear to get through the content. But it is not as bad as you're imagining.
Try racing, will make you a better player in terms of progression without any gear. And then you'll start appreciating the drops you get.

My point is simple - it's more to deal with player's lack of interest in investing themselves in the game. Expecting to get through content without any thought behind it is a no go.

"

reboticon wrote:

Long term the game is fairly boring because it can take thousands of hours to even get one item, let alone link it.

Thousands of hours? Well, lets do math here.

Efficient farming can get at least 20chaos+ an hour, that is stable income without RNG included, which can put couple chaos/exalts on top. On standard that is at least 1 Exalt an hour.

Now take one "good" item as an example: new Kaom's. That is around 30-35+- Exalts, which makes around 30hours, even less of farming.

Exaggerated statements won't stand ground.

"

1988288 wrote:

Try racing, will make you a better player in terms of progression without any gear. And then you'll start appreciating the drops you get.

My point is simple - it's more to deal with player's lack of interest in investing themselves in the game. Expecting to get through content without any thought behind it is a no go.

Racing is by far the funnest thing to do right now. After doing a few hundred maps with nothing to show, it's nice to actually find upgrades in the game.

"

This may be a little too tin-foil hatty. To understand GGG's idea of hardcore and perhaps the direction in general the game will be going take a look at act 3x or w/e they call it. It introduced harder, larger areas and some really hard but ingenious mobs, looking at you corpse barfing avians and those large chicken things that explode on death, some really hard unique mobs(lightning trapper in 2 lvl sceptre of god) and dominus is the best and most interesting boss in the game. Even their quests are better like the library quest for example. Simple item hunt but all the shit needed for it is in a high level zone with great monster density and the quest rewards feel really good. If these are any indicators about what future content will be and its quality I don't think supporters have to worry about 'git rekt'. Now if they would just make the item hunt more fun and rewarding.

My point was that GGG is baiting gamers that this particular game is not designed for under false pretense.

Like "crafting" your own gear etc.

When you first enter the game you look at the system and go "omg this is absolutely brilliant"
And then you realize the drop rates, that it is in fact a gambling system etc.

The same with the skill-tree and build customization. At first glance they marvel a sort of excellence, it is only at a later point in time when you acquire more game knowledge that you can see true these issue's. And most players have already contributed by that time.

The lack of tutorial and Dev based information around these subject's only enforce this line of thought. By the time a player realizes the flaws in the system they might have already invested a lot, so they continue to play in hopes of getting a return.

Just look at some of the responses you get from 1-year old supporters. Some are only just realizing how the game actually operates.(some might take longer because of the way RNG operates, a luck streak only enforces that the game is very well designed, the opposite is also true)

"Git rekt" might be the wrong term for this economical strategy. But i am sure they get a lot of cash from players that drop out after the realization of how the system actually functions.

So in that sense it is quite brilliant since they fish additional cash from a player-base the game was not designed for.

Call it tin-foil-hat if you wish. I look at the forums a lot and i also understand the depth of the game and how it functions both in end-game and pre end-game. And a lot suggest's players are baited with the "false promise" of certain functional systems. While in reality these functional systems only work for a certain mind-set of gamers.
(the crafting system is a perfect example of this, it is fully functional, but only for a selected few of people playing the game, while gated for everybody else)

If anything it is brilliant from GGG to do this.

I would think if the %drop rates would become visible in a tutorial of some kind and then linked with crafting and how crafting is actually "gambling" a lot of people would not even attempt to play this game :').

The most frustrating thing by far is how every slot of gear in the game has 100% required rolls for the item to have any shot of being useable, let alone decent-good.

A helmet doesn't roll %Defense? It's trash. Chest doesn't roll that plus Flat Defense, HP and Res? Trash. Using a shield without a high block chance roll? What's the point of using a shield then?

Melee Weapons are by far the worst offender of this, you need a very high %Physical + very high flat + elemental just for a chance of the weapon being viable, let alone good.

And to top this off, add IIR/IIQ into the mix, which are stats seen as pure necessity rather then luxury. Item drops are few and far between as it is, but then they have to jump through 17 flaming hoops just for the remote possibility of being useable.

"

Only to set them up for an awful and sudden letdown when they get higher levels? That would simply be the next thing everyone will complain about then. - except that would be a legitimate complaint.

Honestly, I think this entire problem is that game designers already over-reward players in other games, games that have closed economies and nobody to trade with, where you could open up an editor and give yourself the best items if you wanted anyway. (or MMO's that use that 'bind on pickup' crap - ever wonder why they do that? They want to give out "moar lootz" without making items valueless)
So please, don’t compare PoE's itemization to them, we are not even in the same ballpark here.

IMO PoE's itemization is only comparable to PoE's difficulty, you are already stating that the early game is incredibly easy - why make it that much easier? It’s nonsense.

How many players do you think continue to play the same character above lvl 80? (and i mean dedicated play, not "taking it out of the closet for a spin")

The game is already punishing as it is for lvl 80+ play. That's why a lot of people just reroll to occasionally play that character for "fun".

You really think there would come "more" complaints about that fact then there already are? really :p?

And to be clear here, fun game experience =/= easy mode.

There is a big difference between creating a fun experience and making the game easy mode.
And since the game is already easy mode, i see no reason to not also make it a "fun gaming experience".

If the easy mode was absent in the current state i would agree with your stance, but this is simply not true. The only challenge presented in early game is RNG, and the "playing time" result of this RNG. You got a good drop "ok" you can now shave 3 hours of your playtime to reach the next difficulty. you got bad RNG "ok" be prepared to put in some extra time investment.

Really i play in merciless nemesis with a character with self-found/famine/manmode/no hp mods on gear. The game is easy, the only thing that changed for me was the "time investment" needed to reach merciless. Now if i dropped all these challenges i put on my self, i would roflstomp the content in 1/4th time i am currently doing it.