So frustrating that the same mistake is repeated in every D2 clone

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Cribstaxx wrote:

I also agree that my view is going to be somewhat more favorable b/c I got some good drops.

Your suggestion of a slightly increased drop rate, perhaps like it was when IIQ was stackable but without having to actually stack it (hate wearing all MF gear) would be nice. The only arguments I take issue with are "I spent X hours therefore I deserve X item" and I realize you aren't making any argument like that.

I suppose this would be a pretty good idea as I enjoy playing self found and I lag when grouping with a lot of FPS draining builds, so I see a lot fewer drops than people that group all the time.

Yeah RNG is RNG. I was on the other side of this discussion last leagues, when quantity existed. That was by far the worst change for solo play. The thing is you can still get quantity, you are just locked into
Where it used to be you could balance it on a rare, like these. . It didn't have the intended stated effect - to decrease clutter on map drops - because everyone still culls with the quantity items, it just made the game less diverse, and hurt solo players quite a bil

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reboticon wrote:

As for your point, I got all the uniques last league, but I got them through drops because there was no gating and we could use IIQ. That is the crux of my problems with drops. I had way more fun last league thinking "ok lets do one more map, maybe something good will pop up," vs this league where it is "ok force yourself to do one more dominus run before bed because you need those rings for the chaos recipe and those alteration shards and 1-2 chaos items so you can list them at work tomorrow." The thought of getting a good drop doesnt even occur to me any more. I've used over 30,000 wisdom scrolls this league. It becomes soul crushing. I'd actually feel much better about it if the crap didn't drop so often. I'd rather not see that beam of light for a unique then have become conditioned to it being trash.

Well, no doubt that you have a point. Personally i'm fine with trading, although i'd like it to be less tedious and annoying, no doubt. I wouldn't be able to find all the items myself either way, even if the drops were tenfold the amount they're now.

The way you phrase it i'd actually agree that drops should be higher, or players at least should have the ability to stack more iir/iiq easier. But i really, really doubt that this'd change anything for those people who are whining all day on the forum. I'd be more than happy to have increased drops for people who actually work for them with a lot of time invested, but i'm very strictly against much more drops for EVERYONE, no matter how much time he/she invests.

If there's any system that rewards players who work for a certain goal - yeah, i'd really support that. Something like... i don't know, maybe: certain bosses have loot tables with higher chances for item X, and every once in a while it drops a (stackable) scrap which increases the chance for a certain item when the player who kills the bosses has it in his/her inventory...

Ah, fck it, i don't know how to fix that either. Still, the way you present your point i actually think you have a very good argument, although i'm very much against more drops in general.

Wow, that may be the first time in the history of the forum that someones mind was slightly changed. You blew my mind! ;)

My suggestions would be, bring back quantity affix and make it so map bosses can't drop low level uniques (but the maps themselves still can.) Then (and only then) decrease the loot pinata effects from piety and dominus. With the amount they currently give a player trying to maximize returns simply has to run them, and it really is mind numbing to run them for 8 hours at a time.

I guess in reality my loot complaints are "risk v reward" complaints, and "too much trash unique drops" that ruin the feeling of getting a unique.

I did more dominus runs last night. No lie, I got eight kaltenhalts and four deerstalkers. Then a Doedres gloves. Finally I got a chitus apex, that's not worth a ton but it doesn't drop commonly, so I was happy with it, simply because it's rare.

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reboticon wrote:

make it so map bosses can't drop low level uniques

I'm ok with some low level uniques dropping in high lvl content, cause you need some items like, for example, Searing Touch to drop in high level areas for it to have 6 socket option. What should not ever drop in high level areas is low level rares. If I'm doing a lvl 60+ areas, when a yellow ES chest drops, it better be a Vaal Regalia or Occultist's Vestment, and not Scholar's Robe.

No point in decreasing loot from Piety and Dominus, that's how people get currency in a game with drop rates that are beyond disastrous. Imagine if Dominus had the drop rate of Hillock = uninstall.

Just a thought on the low level uniques dropping in higher level content:

Most uniques, even the low level ones, typically vendor for far more shards than other items. It is not uncommon for vendored uniques to yield both Alteration and Alchemy shards, the orbs of which are useful for rolling up/changing mods on end-game maps.

Could the drop rates of low uniques be intended as some kind of mechanism to help a player support the currency requirements of rolling maps and/or building up a "base" of currency?

Reboticon and I have been around and around on the topic of drop rates. Suffice it to say we do not see eye to eye, but we understand each other. Personally, I think that the rates are fine in regards to providing players with what they "need" in order to maintain a decent level of character progression both through the content and through the leveling grind. In no way would I argue that they are fine in regards to providing players with what they "want", and I am OK with that, as we all know there are players who would find something to complain about even if you gave them the opportunity to custom-build each drop to tailor to their particular build.

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Sinnesteuer wrote:

Just a thought on the low level uniques dropping in higher level content:

Most uniques, even the low level ones, typically vendor for far more shards than other items. It is not uncommon for vendored uniques to yield both Alteration and Alchemy shards, the orbs of which are useful for rolling up/changing mods on end-game maps.

This is true to an extent, but it is a very, very small difference between most uniques and a high level rare. I've sort of accepted that drops aren't going to be improved, but I am so sick of getting shitty low level uniques in maps. I got 8 kaltenhalt yesterday. That's preposterous. (Also since they were in a row it's crazy RNG perhaps I should have bought a lottery ticket.)

There didn't use to be that beam of light. Ever since they added it uniques are less fun since they are usually junk.

(Kaltenhalt is junk. Straight up. I'm still a little happy when I get another Crest of Perandus.)


I also want my IIQ back. If those two changes were implemented, I wouldn't complain about drops anymore (mostly.)

@Toyotatundra- my "idea" was that map bosses themselves could not drop bad uniques (they could have a lower chance to drop uniques over all, if necessary) but the maps themselves could still drop any unique. Helps address the problem of almost everyone skipping map bosses.

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reboticon wrote:

I also want my IIQ back. If those two changes were implemented, I wouldn't complain about drops anymore (mostly.)

I am honestly not trolling when I make the legitimate, humble suggestion that you should probably play in Standard League. It won't remove the beam of light, but you get your IIQ back. If lack of IIQ is half of your disappointment related to drops, and you choose to play in a league where you know IIQ is "nerfed", then how are you not at least half responsible for your disappointment with drops? Whatever reasons you may have for not playing in Standard do not remove the validity of the point being made. If I didn't give a damn about your enjoyment of the game, I wouldn't make this suggestion.


I'm not totally against the idea of removing certain uniques from map boss "loot tables" while allowing those items to still drop from all other mobs. You know I would disagree with an increase in the drop rate, and I might argue that putting a floor in should net a decrease in drop rate due to increased "value" of those that will drop. Need to still allow RNG to be RNG, and all that, even if we are "peeling back" a few layers.

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How will higher drop rates decrease trading?

It doesn't need to decrease trading, it just needs to be more viable to play self-found. It's currently a joke, progression stops after almost no time at all because good items are so retartdedly rare that there's no point trying to find them yourself and thus no point playing the game solo for more than a couple of weeks.

People who want to trade will continue to trade and there's nothing wrong with that, but the gameplay is currently not good enough for those who don't like to trade, and it's not as if anyone can seriously claim that trading is meant to be a requirment for playing the game, sort of like how grouping is a requirment to get anything serious done in an MMORPG and this is fair so nobody complains that you can't solo raid content.

Quite the contray, PoE's multiplayer and trading facilities are a joke, so there's no grounds for mandating that people shouldn't play solo or expecting players to trade constantly in order to scratch the surface of the game. That's a problem because it makes self-found play pointless, makes the general gameplay boring because you just farm for trading commodities instead of for gear, and it's a very valid complaint because trading can't be called a fair requirment.

In D2, trading was worth doing if you wanted to amass wealth and have all the top items, but it wasn't necessary. You could find the good items yourself -- in fact, a month of heavy play and you'd have a "complete" character. Here, a month of play will get you almost nothing unless you just convert every little thing you find into trading commodities and slowly build up enough to buy some good item that another guy found. That's the exact same thing that was wrong with D3.

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Sinnesteuer wrote:

"

reboticon wrote:

I also want my IIQ back. If those two changes were implemented, I wouldn't complain about drops anymore (mostly.)

I am honestly not trolling when I make the legitimate, humble suggestion that you should probably play in Standard League. It won't remove the beam of light, but you get your IIQ back. If lack of IIQ is half of your disappointment related to drops, and you choose to play in a league where you know IIQ is "nerfed", then how are you not at least half responsible for your disappointment with drops? Whatever reasons you may have for not playing in Standard do not remove the validity of the point being made. If I didn't give a damn about your enjoyment of the game, I wouldn't make this suggestion.

It's not a bad suggestion and I've actually stated several times that I plan on doing that if they keep IIQ removed from the next league. I'll go back to my HC templar when leagues end this time, but with 2.5% of the playerbase there, it really is a ghost town. They said IIQ being removed was an experiment, so I do take every opportunity to say what I feel about it. If it becomes a permanent thing, I'll just shutup about it and go back to playing standard/hc. People in those leagues should worry though, if they use IIQ. what happens in the 4 month leagues usually makes its way to those eventually, but they leave legacy gear alone so I'll still have my quantity set i guess.

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reboticon wrote:

Wow, that may be the first time in the history of the forum that someones mind was slightly changed. You blew my mind! ;)

Well, generally people don't have good arguments. Just stating "I want better loot because i want better loot!" won't change my mind, and stating that drops are too low in general won't change my mind either, because that's simply not true. But if i'm understanding you correctly you're mostly adressing the issue that even with dedicated farming in a very specific enviroment (in this case: Dominus/Piety) and with hundreds, if not thousands hours invested you basicly have no chance of ever getting every unique you want - well, in this special case i'll have to agree with you that this obviously isn't good. When you are a dedicated player and willing to take the mind fuck that is grinding the same content over and over again, it should come along with a more or less reliable reward - if not with the items you want, then at least with something you can easily trade. Mind that i'm strictly calling out "DEDICATION" on all that, because it'd be bad for the game if certain items just would drop more in general. It'd be nice to have a system that keeps dedicated people rewarded without breaking the current economy completely.

I'm still convinced that trading and therefore balancing around trading is somewhat needed in order to keep the excitement in the game, and more important to keep items and itemprogression from de-valuing. Naturally you can adjust drop rates a lot differently when you take into account that players will have to trade eventually if they want certain things - but who am i talking to, you know all that.

I still think it's hard to balance "You are able to find everything" vs. "Game shouldn't give away the best items too often". And if you change the way map bosses drop items in a way you're suggesting, people'd complain that they can't kill the bosses. Naturally some builds have a harder time vs. some bosses or vs. bosses in general (CoC comes to mind), then you have those guys complaining. Very weak bosses would need a buff so you can't just simply farm them, the value of map mods would change drasticly, and so would the value of items/builds enabling to safely farm, say, "Has 2 unique bosses".

But either way, completely apart from the "drop issue" i'm with you that Map Bosses should be more rewarding in general. As of now, they're either a better trash-rare or, even worse, a trash rare not worth the risk, especially when not playing with IIR/IIQ like i do.