So frustrating that the same mistake is repeated in every D2 clone

"

LostForm wrote:

I read this thread as:

"I played D2 many years after it came out, and when I started a game, people just came in and dumped gear on the ground. I had no experience with the game until after every single person had the gear that makes everyone warp around and the game was just silly. I never played D2 when there were runes that were very tedious to farm up. And when I do play, I use RMT and Forum Gold websites to make sure I am never wanting a single piece of gear in game.

Why dont all games become the absurdity that is D2 for the last 4-5 years??!"

Played D2 near release. 2002 or something like that. So no, I was before the absurdity, bro :)

"

ahcos wrote:

I'm a casual myself and am more than thrilled that i'll most likely have years of fun ahead of me, just because the game isn't casual. If you accept the game for what it is and don't want it to be turned into something it's not, it's still one of the best game out there across all genres. The amount of work and passion that went into this game is great, the devs try to get close with the community and listen to it (oh, i see the hate incoming for that sentence, even though it's true), the complexity and longlivety of the game is astounding, for a casual and hardcore player alike.

Hell, i'm not completely satisfied with every aspect of the game either - i'd also like a crafting system for low-mid tier items that is somewhat more rewarding, i do think the map drops to reach the 72-76 plateau are a little to scarce, also there are without a doubt severe problems regarding leech of both kinds and ele damage and with other certain skills, and the difficulty ramps up in A3 way to quickly and way too sudden. It's still a great game and one of the milestones in it's genre, and i like it for what it is rather for what it should be.

I wasn't addressing you, but I'll go ahead and explain myself as well. The "casual" remark gets thrown around quite a bit, but look at the characters and time investments of the people with complaints. It's generally 5x-20x higher than those throwing out the "casual" comments. If you guys want to discuss why you think our complaints are unjustified, feel free to give reasons.

Personally, I have zero problems with Act3 or leech. When I see threads about them, I offer assistance, rather than call those players casuals, as I realize their experience does not necessarily mirror my own.

I will explain this last part one last time. The problem is not with getting these items. Look.



The problem is, how many of those actually DROPPED for me? Answer: 1. Rainbowstrides. The rest were acquired through trading and farming alterations/chaos. For every one hour spent farming, I must then spent 30 minutes to an hour updating shop, dealing with pm, etc. It's not a fun way to play the game, and it burns people out far faster than "acquiring good items through drops" does.

Ok, basically you're saying you never played D2 you know? you're also talking about a mod??? wtf??? have you ever played D2 online WITH the real PvE endgame (uber runs) and PvP (true endgame where you needed top items)??

D2 PvE was a complete joke. It seems drops are fine only because PvE was terribly easy. Then you start PvP: "oh right let's go PvP with peasant crown and aldur boots" and then, after you get shredded 5734563478 times, you understand what the true D2 endgame was and what TRUE endgame gear is.

Or you're telling me that you had all the BASIC PvP items playing self-found offline? you had Enigma, Hoto, mara, Spirit (impossible offline btw) and 2x sojs? don't think so.

Drop rates from D2 are WORST than PoE drop rates regarding endgame gear, you must understand this. Be humble and listen to REAL D2 player with REAL D2 experience on REAL D2 endgame.

And don't say "ahah i don't care about PvP so it's not endgame"; because PvP IS D2 endgame, for the simple fact that is the only place/feature where you really need endgame gear to success. All other PvE can be done with mediocre gear.

Go tell a D2 player "im endgame i farm uber trist!!", then watch him die by laughers. I'm really tired of fake D2 players trying to make D2:PoE comparisons

PS: here, take the """""good""""" drop rates of D2: http://diablo2.ingame.de/tips/calcs/dropcalc/dropcalc.php?lang=en&patch=110&mode=lod&interface=default&window=true

Last boss, 8 players, 500 MF: chance to drop endgame amulet "mara's kaleidoscope": 0.0370825%

Chance to drop Jah rune (for Enigma): 0.0021401%
Chance to drop Ber rune (for Enigma): 0.0019164%

From hell bovines, one of the best farming zone for HRs, Jah rune drops like crazy!!! an astonishing 0.0001529%!!!

PPS: /players 8 doesn't work online in Bnet too :D so cya iiq from 8 players[/quote]

Idr the ladder, i know it was LoD after they increased slightly the rune drop rate but 2nd day OHM dropped from pit than maybe the day after LO, did some ubber with that grief / CTA from those runes and got a near perfect pally torch, not too long after that (yea it was intense farming tho) CoA drop, followed by maras, had around 2-300 mf top on hammerdin. As for the PvP, is ppl really considering d2 pvp at all? i mean, this was a joke lmao, i mean, seriously, not even gonna explain why. I had goals when i started that ladder and attained them all but tyrael's might, got an IK body instead :( last wish was cool to craft even tho it didn't roll very high. Thing is, most item base had an unique and there was less base tier item AND magic mods potency.

Edit: I'm not bashing just saying, those ridiculous % are weird to consider, you kill so much stuff in the end its hard to calculate, in fact, alot of ppl were spoiled from bots also, thats what i really hated because in the end near to nothing was legit but what dropped for you, hence why i was really happy to get the stuff i said from mobs. Thinking about it, thats what the real problem was, so much duping and bots, the drop rate was ok its just that it felt normal to get some GG uniques because so much of them were around.

"

reboticon wrote:

I wasn't addressing you, but I'll go ahead and explain myself as well. The "casual" remark gets thrown around quite a bit, but look at the characters and time investments of the people with complaints. It's generally 5x-20x higher than those throwing out the "casual" comments. If you guys want to discuss why you think our complaints are unjustified, feel free to give reasons.

Well, as i said: the "casualkids" was wrong. But by no doubt, if you want more drops you want it to be more casual, so yeah, even if you have a remarkable amount of items you still want it to be more casual.

There's nothing wrong to want that, but it's also not wrong to NOT want that. Both sides have good reasons.

I'm with you that selling in this game is tedious and no fun, but that has nothing to do with the problem the thread was originally about. I rather have the tedious trading than a game where i can find all the items myself in ~1500 hours of playing, because then there'd be very little for me to do after that. You see, i fully understand that people want more drops, and no doubt: i'd enjoy that greatly aswell. But just as it's not satisfying to eat a whole cake at once, it's neither satisfying to find tons of great items all the time. It's very hard to keep balance in this regard, but for instance D3 RoS or TL2 overdid it A LOT on the other end and are by no means good examples of "loot balance", or whatever you may call it. PoE's not perfect either, but much closer to perfection than pretty much every other APRG i've ever played before, including D2 LoD. Guess what, i didn't like LoD because items were meaningless and every idiot got lvl99 in no time. I went back to Classic - no absurd rune words or insane Uniques, rares actually did matter. Still, "loot balance" was closer to perfection in LoD than in pretty much every other game, but more on the "rather too much" end than on the "rather too little" end like PoE. Both approaches are viable, but i'm more than happy that GGG chose this very approach they chose.

PS: I strongly believe that a lot of players are arguing with "nostalgic googles" on, hence i tend to be cautious every time someone says "Game X did Y right, and PoE's worse here". Especially as i know this from myself: i'm a long time Dota player, and still think that Wc3 Dota did tons of stuff better than Dota2 today. Nostalgia is very strong and clouds your judgement.

This game is good, but it could have been great for years.
They absolutely dropped the ball on end game loot, boss drops, crafting, and too much carrot dangling and not enough carrot.

Who wants to play when they don't get drops or feel like there's nothing to work toward?
The carrot is dangled way too far ahead my friends.

Shame on GGG for not doing much about it the last months too and repeating the woes of prior game predecessors.
Seriously, what kind of crap improvements is GGG putting their efforts toward? How about better boss loot, better farming areas. More usable loot. More crafting options. Nobody wants underpowered new gems and underwhelming uniques. I'm going to make a punchin' Judy (now named Punchin' Chris) and punch it every time an Aruku Tiki or Sidhebreath dropped in a 77 map.

Wow had way better itemization as far as gear goes. Not saying you have to mirror it(pun intended) but why mess with what works. You can do a mix of random loots and boss table loots. That way people woudl eventually get it to drop and not have to wait for a miracle drop.

Signed,
JimmyTsang

Lol. I find it hilarious how the people claiming to know Diablo 2 pvp are saying you needed the best gear to be good at it. I can make a tals sorc that could wreck all of you. It's more about skill than gear. Yes you have some chars that would be awesome with specific gear but there were more builds that when done properly could wreck with nothing special for gear.
And for that matter don't try to compare the pve and mf to poe. In d2 if you were farming bosses and had decent mf you would find tons of viable loot all the time. The best gear? No. But viable sets and unique to keep you building more chars and having fun. Poe is the exact opposite. You need good gear to even get I to the areas to get good gear. It's pretty retarded if you think about it. The currency is just as rare as the loot you actually want. Unless you can farm endlessly or keep an updated shop at all times you are doomed to nothingness for progress. I hate that I am high level because I'm just grinding and getting low shitty uniques all the time. I'm not even entirely sure why the hell I do it. I'm just throwing currency at 5 or 6 linking my volls and have spent hundreds of fuzes and none so far. It's just stupid. Endgame in this game is just a rng timesink. All of it. There is no way it will last. It's too unrewarding and unforgiving to sustain the nonhardcore.

You should really learn about relativity. Not what einstein taught us, but the fact that "good" is a relative term. If every player has "good" items. They are not "good' items.

If every single person in the world drove a lamborghini, a lamborghini would not be what it is considered today.

The good things in life have much less meaning without the bad things to give some perspective.

Good design imho.

The chance that one day i might drop an OMG rare unique is whats keeps me motivated.
It has not happened yet but one of these day(or years) gg :D

99% of items are very accesible and all specs thus easily playable.

There is no reason why there cant be a few uber rare items.

Stop whining please, one does not need every single item spoonfed.

Is too much stick not enough carrot, and/or variations of that, the new catch phrase for drop rate complaints? I see this thrown around a lot.