Feedback and Suggestions (Path of Exile 1) - So frustrating that the same mistake is repeated in every D2 clone - Forum

Spoiler " ahcos wrote: " reboticon wrote: I wasn't addressing you, but I'll go ahead and explain myself as well. The "casual" remark gets thrown around quite a bit, but look at the characters and time investments of the people with complaints. It's generally 5x-20x higher than those throwing out the "casual" comments. If you guys want to discuss why you think our complaints are unjustified, feel free to give reasons. Well, as i said: the "casualkids" was wrong. But by no doubt, if you want more drops you want it to be more casual, so yeah, even if you have a remarkable amount of items you still want it to be more casual. There's nothing wrong to want that, but it's also not wrong to NOT want that. Both sides have good reasons. I'm with you that selling in this game is tedious and no fun, but that has nothing to do with the problem the thread was originally about. I rather have the tedious trading than a game where i can find all the items myself in ~1500 hours of playing, because then there'd be very little for me to do after that. You see, i fully understand that people want more drops, and no doubt: i'd enjoy that greatly aswell. But just as it's not satisfying to eat a whole cake at once, it's neither satisfying to find tons of great items all the time. It's very hard to keep balance in this regard, but for instance D3 RoS or TL2 overdid it A LOT on the other end and are by no means good examples of "loot balance", or whatever you may call it. PoE's not perfect either, but much closer to perfection than pretty much every other APRG i've ever played before, including D2 LoD. Guess what, i didn't like LoD because items were meaningless and every idiot got lvl99 in no time. I went back to Classic - no absurd rune words or insane Uniques, rares actually did matter. Still, "loot balance" was closer to perfection in LoD than in pretty much every other game, but more on the "rather too much" end than on the "rather too little" end like PoE. Both approaches are viable, but i'm more than happy that GGG chose this very approach they chose. PS: I strongly believe that a lot of players are arguing with "nostalgic googles" on, hence i tend to be cautious every time someone says "Game X did Y right, and PoE's worse here". Especially as i know this from myself: i'm a long time Dota player, and still think that Wc3 Dota did tons of stuff better than Dota2 today. Nostalgia is very strong and clouds your judgement. My complaint is that items are far more easily achieved through proficient trading then drops, to an insane degree. Nothing could be more casual. I knew a guy in onslaught who had an insane amount of wealth but no character over 35. He just played trade all day. That doesn't strike me as hardcore. Wanting good rewards from real challenges seems far more 'hardcore' to me. Anarchy/Onslaught T shirt Domination/Nemesis T shirt Tempest/War Bands T shirt Last edited by reboticon#2775 on Jan 23, 2014, 3:42:55 PM	Posted by reboticon#2775 on Jan 23, 2014, 3:42:25 PM Quote this Post
I mostly agree with the conversation that drop rates are ridiculously low and that the only way to survive and progress in end-game is through trading, which is an awful experience. Want res gear to survive in merciless? Trade. Want chisels to quality you 70+ maps so that you get returns? Trade Want gear that increases your DPS? Trade Want to craft your gear? HA! Not worth your time or currency It's quite demoralizing to be at end game, farming maps, and not be able to progress your character because you're A: poor and B: don't have the HP/ES/resists, etc to progress. My primary character is 82 and has 5k ES. It is challenging to meet the DPS/ES requirements to progress into 74+ maps - and that's after spending 10+ exalts on gear. If I want to get more ES, I will have to spend at least 5-10 exalts on new gear pieces. Where the hell am I to get more exalts without playing the Path of Trading or having extreme luck in the game? Create a MF character and farm Piety/Dominus until my eyes bleed? What a boring thing to have to do AND it still involves a lot of wasted time through inefficient trading. Sigh. It will probably cause me to burnout and quit the game before too long. Does GGG ever respond to this? It seems like there are daily threads with people upset about their ridiculous drop rates. Last edited by fireincairo#5490 on Jan 23, 2014, 3:47:01 PM	Posted by fireincairo#5490 on Jan 23, 2014, 3:44:34 PM Quote this Post
" reboticon wrote: My complaint is that items are far more easily achieved through proficient trading then drops, to an insane degree. Nothing could be more casual. I knew a guy in onslaught who had an insane amount of wealth but no character over 35. He just played trade all day. That doesn't strike me as hardcore. Wanting good rewards from real challenges seems far more 'hardcore' to me. How will higher drop rates decrease trading? That will just make it that much easier for people that do nothing but flips items. There will be more great items out there, and more people that don't know their value finding them, that is a flippers paradise no? I very rarely trade and never listen to any WTS offers on trade chat as I'm sure 90% of them are flippers. What I don't understand is why it bothers people that other people are amassing wealth. "Jo Schmo just got his 2nd 6L Shavronne's OMG that is so BS!" - How again does that affect my gameplay in the slightest? I'm having a good time running my 70-74 maps enjoying the drops that I receive and thinking of new build idea's to try with them. I don't care if every other player in the game had a 6L, doesn't mean I have to have one to enjoy myself. Edit: really getting tired of seeing "The only possible way to reach end game is trading!!!!!11one" it simply isn't true, and it also doesn't require thousands of hours without trading. Last edited by Cribstaxx#4323 on Jan 23, 2014, 3:52:46 PM	Posted by Cribstaxx#4323 on Jan 23, 2014, 3:51:23 PM Quote this Post
although this game is out of beta it still has a shit load of content to be added. GGG are doing a great job this game is going to only get better, sure there are a few problems but good things take time. hell i waited for diablo3 for how long and was so hyped and that game was terrible imo im glad GGG saved me from playing that game and i learn to deal with bad Rng cos its better than playing d3 lols.	Posted by NekoHanten#2414 on Jan 23, 2014, 4:00:32 PM Quote this Post
In D3 it did become pretty easy to get items and I can see why this made some people get bored and quit. I guess that's what GGG doesn't want to happen, but I don't think it would in this game. In D3 a lot of the time you got the best items and that was pretty much it, you could switch your build around and they were still pretty much the best items. People didn't reroll new characters in that game really. In this game there are so many build choices and you have to reroll for most of them, but the problem is most people can't even really get one character to a very high level gear wise much less try out the other 4 or 5 builds they are interested in. Maybe someone is interested in running a low life build, maybe they want to try a bringer of rain build, or a aegis aurora build. Someone like me will almost certainly never have any of these items. I guess I just wish I could combine D3 drops with the plethora of build choices this game brings so I could actually try some of them out. It could be worse though, I could have the D3 skill tree with this games drops.	Posted by Dokyo#4159 on Jan 23, 2014, 4:14:25 PM Quote this Post
" Cribstaxx wrote: " reboticon wrote: My complaint is that items are far more easily achieved through proficient trading then drops, to an insane degree. Nothing could be more casual. I knew a guy in onslaught who had an insane amount of wealth but no character over 35. He just played trade all day. That doesn't strike me as hardcore. Wanting good rewards from real challenges seems far more 'hardcore' to me. How will higher drop rates decrease trading? That will just make it that much easier for people that do nothing but flips items. There will be more great items out there, and more people that don't know their value finding them, that is a flippers paradise no? I very rarely trade and never listen to any WTS offers on trade chat as I'm sure 90% of them are flippers. What I don't understand is why it bothers people that other people are amassing wealth. "Jo Schmo just got his 2nd 6L Shavronne's OMG that is so BS!" - How again does that affect my gameplay in the slightest? I'm having a good time running my 70-74 maps enjoying the drops that I receive and thinking of new build idea's to try with them. I don't care if every other player in the game had a 6L, doesn't mean I have to have one to enjoy myself. Edit: really getting tired of seeing "The only possible way to reach end game is trading!!!!!11one" it simply isn't true, and it also doesn't require thousands of hours without trading. It might make it easier for them, but I wouldn't notice, I'd be too busy finding my own gear and wouldn't even be paying attention to them. I'm not sure if you are referring to me with your edit, but I have zero problem getting to end game. The problem is what you do when you get there. If what you enjoy is acquiring items, grinding for them is a poor way to get there. I've already proven in an earlier post I can acquire these godly items 3 months into a 4 month league, by trading. I'm still playing. Dispells the " when you have the good stuff you quit" talking point. Anarchy/Onslaught T shirt Domination/Nemesis T shirt Tempest/War Bands T shirt	Posted by reboticon#2775 on Jan 23, 2014, 4:15:10 PM Quote this Post
" reboticon wrote: It might make it easier for them, but I wouldn't notice, I'd be too busy finding my own gear and wouldn't even be paying attention to them. I'm not sure if you are referring to me with your edit, but I have zero problem getting to end game. The problem is what you do when you get there. If what you enjoy is acquiring items, grinding for them is a poor way to get there. I've already proven in an earlier post I can acquire these godly items 3 months into a 4 month league, by trading. I'm still playing. Dispells the " when you have the good stuff you quit" talking point. No the edit wasn't for you. Just like you said it takes you 3 months of very high gameplay time and having a shop constantly updated to acquire amazing items, that's why you're still playing. If you could get all those items in 1 month do you really think you'd keep playing all the way through the league or would quit half way through b/c there's nothing else to do? You have quite a large shop and according to your own post you purchased nearly all your good gear so it would have a huge effect on you. The prices of all items would drop, therefor making currency worth even more and you would be doing non-stop piety/dominus for alts b/c that would be the quickest way to acquire those amazing items. Last edited by Cribstaxx#4323 on Jan 23, 2014, 4:26:02 PM	Posted by Cribstaxx#4323 on Jan 23, 2014, 4:24:15 PM Quote this Post
" Cribstaxx wrote: No the edit wasn't for you. Just like you said it takes you 3 months of very high gameplay time and having a shop constantly updated to acquire amazing items, that's why you're still playing. If you could get all those items in 1 month do you really think you'd keep playing all the way through the league or would quit half way through b/c there's nothing else to do? You have quite a large shop and according to your own post you purchased nearly all your good gear so it would have a huge effect on you. The prices of all items would drop, therefor making currency worth even more and you would be doing non-stop piety/dominus for alts b/c that would be the quickest way to acquire those amazing items. First - thanks for being able to discuss this rather than resulting to insults, etc. We can disagree but still have dialogue, so thanks. As for your point, I got all the uniques last league, but I got them through drops because there was no gating and we could use IIQ. That is the crux of my problems with drops. I had way more fun last league thinking "ok lets do one more map, maybe something good will pop up," vs this league where it is "ok force yourself to do one more dominus run before bed because you need those rings for the chaos recipe and those alteration shards and 1-2 chaos items so you can list them at work tomorrow." The thought of getting a good drop doesnt even occur to me any more. I've used over 30,000 wisdom scrolls this league. It becomes soul crushing. I'd actually feel much better about it if the crap didn't drop so often. I'd rather not see that beam of light for a unique then have become conditioned to it being trash. Anarchy/Onslaught T shirt Domination/Nemesis T shirt Tempest/War Bands T shirt	Posted by reboticon#2775 on Jan 23, 2014, 4:41:10 PM Quote this Post
" Cribstaxx wrote: Just like you said it takes you 3 months of very high gameplay time and having a shop constantly updated to acquire amazing items, that's why you're still playing. If you could get all those items in 1 month do you really think you'd keep playing all the way through the league or would quit half way through b/c there's nothing else to do? I doubt he's agreeing with you. If he started the league with good items he'd still be enjoying the game. With those items.	Posted by Taganov#3778 on Jan 23, 2014, 4:49:01 PM Quote this Post
" reboticon wrote: First - thanks for being able to discuss this rather than resulting to insults, etc. We can disagree but still have dialogue, so thanks. As for your point, I got all the uniques last league, but I got them through drops because there was no gating and we could use IIQ. That is the crux of my problems with drops. I had way more fun last league thinking "ok lets do one more map, maybe something good will pop up," vs this league where it is "ok force yourself to do one more dominus run before bed because you need those rings for the chaos recipe and those alteration shards and 1-2 chaos items so you can list them at work tomorrow." The thought of getting a good drop doesnt even occur to me any more. I've used over 30,000 wisdom scrolls this league. It becomes soul crushing. I'd actually feel much better about it if the crap didn't drop so often. I'd rather not see that beam of light for a unique then have become conditioned to it being trash. I can't really comment on IIQ since I joined during this Domination league, I'm sure that drops were a lot greater when you could stack 150 IIQ vs. 40-60 now. I agree that a lot of crap drops, I keep having to buy more stash tabs b/c I don't want to throw it away (Lol perhaps that was intended) I also agree that my view is going to be somewhat more favorable b/c I got some good drops. Your suggestion of a slightly increased drop rate, perhaps like it was when IIQ was stackable but without having to actually stack it (hate wearing all MF gear) would be nice. The only arguments I take issue with are "I spent X hours therefore I deserve X item" and I realize you aren't making any argument like that. I suppose this would be a pretty good idea as I enjoy playing self found and I lag when grouping with a lot of FPS draining builds, so I see a lot fewer drops than people that group all the time.	Posted by Cribstaxx#4323 on Jan 23, 2014, 4:55:44 PM Quote this Post