Trading too tedious? OR Trading is OP?

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Thaelyn wrote:

Every time I see the stale and fallacious argument of "increased drop rates = find everything in a week and quit the game" I have to chuckle. I'm amazed at the hypocrisy of it, when one can get all the best items in a few hours through trade yet nobody is concerned that those who do will quit the game.

Agreed. +1000

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pantherios wrote:

Indeed, the AH is being removed because it ruined the game experience of actually playing the game. If you wanted good gear you did not go play for it, you just bought it from the AH. The AH ruined motivation for people to actually play D3.

What blizzard is currently doing with RoS is trying to fix the above situation. I wonder when GGG will follow to fix this trading/playing dilemma.

In the end all that matters to me in a game is, do i enjoy playing it? And currently Path of Exile is beginning to bore me. Once you get high level the risk of dying and loosing progress of the last few days is not motivating to play a high level chars. This because you don't feel like you are progressing anymore.

Crafting is in my personal opinion more of a gamble and not a steady way of progressing your characters gear. So what do you do? You level some alts, try another build. Once that is done? Well, leave the game, wait for a expansion and some other changes. Come back try the new content and leave again. This is how most people play a MMO. Subscriber bases grow and shrink based on what the game has to offer. Currently it seems that after the launch spike PoE is shrinking (at least from what you read on the forums here).

Only time will tell how PoE will evolve and how enticing any future updates are to keep people interested.

Ugh... Blizzard... Most people don't really understand what Blizzard did wrong with Diablo 3. They think it was the AH or the RMAH or lack of character customization. It really wasn't. It was the items. There were no interesting items in Diablo 3. All they had to do was create some build enabling legendaries so that people would work hard to get them and have characters with different playstyles. If they had released new items and a few new quests every month then the game would still be going strong.

Instead they let the game stagnate, made it super easy for everyone, and now are changing their entire game philosophy. The only people who still play D3 play it for the AH and the RMAH. They are alienating these people with their expansion and appealing to the ultra casual crowd.

You make a good point when you explain how game populations rise and fall with the addition of content. That's what D3 missed out on. They never realized that there wasn't enough content to keep people interested. PoE realizes this. We get new content every two weeks or so here. I really wish Blizzard understood this...

You cannot make a game were finding something yourself is better then trading.

A billion item drops everywhere and everyone can trade and share each other drops, of course in comparison you will not find as many "good" drops as a whole to the entire amount of drops found that day.

Although I do not understand the complaints about trading that have >nothing to do with yourself or how you play the game<.

1. Trading is cheating because it allows you to skip/fast forward content
- Then don't trade, you don't need to trade or particularly care about other people progress.
- You still have to find currency/items to trade. People don't magically spawn 20 exalts out no where when they start trading.

2. Trading is just people scamming each other and flipping.
- Just because people can scam and flip doesn't mean trading is bad, people can hack and bot in this game but I don't see that used to say its pointless to play this game.

3. Trading is bad because it affects my personal play or SFL opinions.
- Trading has nothing to do with your self-play because trading no matter what the drop rate will be better then finding something yourself. It's a matter of whenever or not you can progress without trading, you can in this game.

4. Trading system sucks because it's hard to trade
-It's an marginal upgrade of D2 trading system which is herald as one of the best multiplayer/trading/ladder/self play game. Your just being spoiled by D3 AH and MMOs.

Sorry, but adding a skill gem or two (that either arrive underpowered or get nerfed a few weeks after being released) and a couple uniques most people will never own doesn't qualify as "new content every two weeks."

New content is new zones and acts and other playable content. And while they are coming of course, it's not even remotely close to two weeks. I do hope act 4 makes it out before too long.

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RagnarokChu wrote:

You cannot make a game were finding something yourself is better then trading.

Might be true, but you can make a game where self-found can carry you to the end-game within a reasonable period of time.

I'm not saying that drop-rates should be increased, but that content accessibility should be adjusted with self-found in mind.

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CassCE wrote:

Sorry, but adding a skill gem or two (that either arrive underpowered or get nerfed a few weeks after being released) and a couple uniques most people will never own doesn't qualify as "new content every two weeks."

New content is new zones and acts and other playable content. And while they are coming of course, it's not even remotely close to two weeks. I do hope act 4 makes it out before too long.

You know you have some high extremely expectations for a game to release entire new zones/acts and new mechanics/game systems every 2 weeks.

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Might be true, but you can make a game where self-found can carry you to the end-game within a reasonable period of time.

I'm not saying that drop-rates should be increased, but that content accessibility should be adjusted with self-found in mind.

This is an issue though, define "reasonable period of time." (many people will have a different answer) You can get to maps in a "reasonable period of time.", and there are many popular builds on the forums were you can beat the game in entire self found or min trading.

There are many possible ways to improve the game in general for the progression curve that does not involve self-found vs trading, solo vs partying or whatever group of players that feels entitled that updates should be made just for them.

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CassCE wrote:

Sorry, but adding a skill gem or two (that either arrive underpowered or get nerfed a few weeks after being released) and a couple uniques most people will never own doesn't qualify as "new content every two weeks."

New content is new zones and acts and other playable content. And while they are coming of course, it's not even remotely close to two weeks. I do hope act 4 makes it out before too long.

What!? When a new skill is released that means I can make a new build off of it. When new uniques are released I can make new builds from them or at least try them out on current builds! New content is new things to try and do! That's a lot of new content every two weeks...

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RagnarokChu wrote:

This is an issue though, define "reasonable period of time." (many people will have a different answer) You can get to maps in a "reasonable period of time."

Diablo 2 already defined it. Reaching top maps in PoE should take approximately the same time as reaching Baal on hell.

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majesw wrote:

Ugh... Blizzard... Most people don't really understand what Blizzard did wrong with Diablo 3. They think it was the AH or the RMAH or lack of character customization. It really wasn't. It was the items. There were no interesting items in Diablo 3. All they had to do was create some build enabling legendaries so that people would work hard to get them and have characters with different playstyles. If they had released new items and a few new quests every month then the game would still be going strong.

Correct, you need some 'carrot on a stick' to have people working too, but in my personal opinion only having these carrot's on a 'very long' stick will demoralise most of the player base. Knowing some items are attainable, while others which enable some build seem to be out of reach. I personally feel that there are a few items which are used in a lot of build out there and other unique items which are being tossed aside for not being usable in build or not understood by the greater part of the player base.

It's a difficult balance that needs to be done here. What amount of time is needed to achieve a certain item. And which is the optimal way to achieve the item. Currently the most optimal way seems to trade your way to it. Personally i would rather find stuff myself. I found a Moonsorrow wand a few weeks back. (don't know how to link it here on the fora). But i feel like i'm going against the stream by actually playing the game. Maybe it's only a feeling, but it seems that a lot of people have it (when reading threads here). I wish this was not the case.

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pantherios wrote:

Correct, you need some 'carrot on a stick' to have people working too, but in my personal opinion only having these carrot's on a 'very long' stick will demoralise most of the player base. Knowing some items are attainable, while others which enable some build seem to be out of reach. I personally feel that there are a few items which are used in a lot of build out there and other unique items which are being tossed aside for not being usable in build or not understood by the greater part of the player base.

It's a difficult balance that needs to be done here. What amount of time is needed to achieve a certain item. And which is the optimal way to achieve the item. Currently the most optimal way seems to trade your way to it. Personally i would rather find stuff myself. I found a Moonsorrow wand a few weeks back. (don't know how to link it here on the fora). But i feel like i'm going against the stream by actually playing the game. Maybe it's only a feeling, but it seems that a lot of people have it (when reading threads here). I wish this was not the case.

That's why I miss low level sets in this game. I understand the argument against higher level sets being best in slot and required, but there's no real good argument against some neat low level sets. They give players something to collect. They give players some clear builds that help them progress. And they were bright green and I miss that :-)