Trading too tedious? OR Trading is OP?

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iamstryker wrote:

So which one should GGG work on? Making trading easier or making trading less of a focus?

Both, obviously, but that's kind of avoiding the question.

First off, the phrasing is kind of awkward. Saying trading is OP is kind of like saying 75 in all elemental resistances is OP. You're not quite required to do it, but you are kind of expected to, to such an extent that it's a requirement for pretty much everyone... but is that OP, or just expected?

But yeah, the "trading is OP" half of that is the half to focus on. Trading should be a fun, enjoyable, profitable minigame... for those who chose to partake. PoE is a game where monsters drop a shitload of gear which your build cannot use, apparently under the belief you will reroll, except that's a shitty assumption because people generally don't. The solution is to drop less tradebait:drop less gear and more orbs, make it so certain monsters are more likely to drop certain gear leading to more targeting farming, and so on. Give players less stuff to sell, and having a shop thread will feel more optional.

In terms of making trading fun, UI isn't as important as metagame. Fun trading means making it harder to predict what the next flavor of the month is, making it harder to know which item is best-in-slot for which build, making it harder to know which three prefixes are best. Which means it's all about balance: build balance, unique balance, affix balance. You could have the sleekest UI in the world and trading would devolve to a D3 piece of shit if itemization is shit.

The thing is, casual trading isn't even all that time consuming or tedious, especially now that we have indexers.

Spend 15 minutes or so setting up a trade thread, bump/update it every few hours, get the occasional pm and just trade something, it really is that easy.

The complaint that people who trade constantly have an edge over people who run maps or whatever is just silly. If those people are spending all their time not playing the game, then they're directly going against your definition of "fun". So what exactly are you envious of? The fact that they have better stuff that they apparently never use?

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JahIthBer89 wrote:

The thing is, casual trading isn't even all that time consuming or tedious, especially now that we have indexers.

A fast action can still be tedious. The more trading relies on "cloud-sourced" pricing and less on individual evaluation, the more dumbed-down it becomes; the more challenge there is in proper item evaluation, the more interesting (and risky!) trading becomes.

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Novalisk wrote:

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RagnarokChu wrote:

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Please explain how increasing the drop rate of maps is a buff to trading.

And act 4 is a long time away.

You cannot do maps.

False assumption. A lot of players can do top maps but are simply denied so by the low drop rates. Also, increasing the drop rate of maps makes maps potentially easier, since you don't have to go through hard rare maps in order to progress.

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I can do maps and get much better on items on average or possibility better items.

So can everyone else.

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You buff drop rates on your inferior gear that nobody else wants.

Increasing the drop rate of maps does none of that.

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I get buff drop rates on stuff people wants, I have more of it and I sell it to you for less.

You can now buy better stuff for less.

But I don't need your stuff to progress anymore. And increasing the drop rate of maps doesn't mean a ton of awesome gear up on the market. It could actually mean the contrary, since people won't have to roll top IIQ maps in order to progress or maintain a base.

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If I could not reach maps on my own naturally, I've even more incentive to buy gear from trading then find it myself.

But you can reach them on your own now, that's the whole point.

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Other example.

It does not matter if everyone get 10 exalts by the end of merc because you still trade away your exalts or use the exalts for yourself in ilvl+70 items that can roll the best stats. If you feel that your own shit isn't as good enough because of trading and that you can't get to the best items in the game, then having more of something that someone else can use better means that 1 exalt or 10 exalt would have the same mental effect.

I said nothing about increasing the drop rates of exalts. Absolutely nothing.

Why you changing your stance to the drop rate of 1 specific thing in general which was the drop rate of maps. While I was talking about the drop rate in general, and they did already buffed the drop rates of maps. I was literally talking about why buffing drop rates in general does nothing while smoothing out the progression curve to get into the map was better.

So now you are just agreeing with me in a somewhat weird half way that you can do anything yourself and that trading is just better. You just want more buffed map drop rates.

When people says trading sucks and they need to progress they mean it in.

Normal, cruel merc act 1 2 and 3 (this section, hitting a wall to get to maps) > Maps

SUSTAINING maps is an entirely different discussions that has nothing to do with solo-found vs trading vs normal player that does a little of both because everyone has issues sustaining high level maps.

Didn't care to read any comments, I'm just responding to the OP.

To be completely honest, I'd be content with either action. I don't MIND trading so much as appraising my items, and realizing that little of what I pick up is really actually worth anything to anyone. But if it were easier to at least move merchandise I DO find, I'd be much more content with the game as it is now.

If they were to make the mod pools less frustratingly big, we'd all be getting better stuff on the whole. Can't complain about that.

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RagnarokChu wrote:

Why you changing your stance to the drop rate of 1 specific thing in general which was the drop rate of maps. While I was talking about the drop rate in general, and they did already buffed the drop rates of maps. I was literally talking about why buffing drop rates in general does nothing while smoothing out the progression curve to get into the map was better.

So now you are just agreeing with me in a somewhat weird half way that you can do anything yourself and that trading is just better. You just want more buffed map drop rates.

I'm not changing any stance, I never said drop rates should be increased for anything but maps.

Why im forced to use a Third Party Tool like xyz to have acess to the Items on the Market?

-Browsing myself 1000x of Topics isnt easy and funny and it consumes Ages of my Time.
-Trade Chat isnt a Option too, because its just a Spamfest and the most ppl dont use it, think about what will happens, when every Shop Topic User, dont can make a Shop and is forced to trade only In Game. Horrible...

Why have the Current Trade System only Profit for the Economy Gurus and Item Flipper?

-few people control the Prices on Market and everyone need to swallow it or just dont Trade.
-Example: Some Itemflipper buy Several Items away from the Market and Offer these Items for a Higher Amount. Its not the Problem itself, i dont have a Problem to let these Guys make "Money" for there amount of Time invested in trading. But Random Guy A and B grind Maps, found the Same Item and think now: Hey the Guy sold several of these for xx. So let us take the Same amount, we wont sell under this Price, hehe. Random Guy C saved his Currency to have 1 Day acces to this Item and realize now: Lol, its more expensive :(

Why is this so? Simple, Crafting needs TOOOOOONNNNSSSS of Orbs to make the Item you whant, or better: to make nearly a good Item. How you can earn these massive Amount of Currency? Rip off Other Ppl, scam other ppl. Flip Items like a Baws, or Grind your Ass to Hell.

The Game is for MY PERSONAL TASTE, to hard designed around Trading. Sure, you can Play selffound and not forced to Trade by the Game self, but when u whant acces to a Upgrade, you only can trade for this Item, or try to craft itself.

So for me, it will be very nice and welcome, when im less forced to Trade OR have a better Acess to the Market, instead of FORCED to use a third party tool.


Thanks for your Time.


Light

I really enjoy crafting my own gear, it feels so much more rewarding than saving up and buying gear. So I'd prefer if they put less focus on trading.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

So which one should GGG work on? Making trading easier or making trading less of a focus?

Both, obviously, but that's kind of avoiding the question.

First off, the phrasing is kind of awkward. Saying trading is OP is kind of like saying 75 in all elemental resistances is OP. You're not quite required to do it, but you are kind of expected to, to such an extent that it's a requirement for pretty much everyone... but is that OP, or just expected?

But yeah, the "trading is OP" half of that is the half to focus on. Trading should be a fun, enjoyable, profitable minigame... for those who chose to partake. PoE is a game where monsters drop a shitload of gear which your build cannot use, apparently under the belief you will reroll, except that's a shitty assumption because people generally don't. The solution is to drop less tradebait:drop less gear and more orbs, make it so certain monsters are more likely to drop certain gear leading to more targeting farming, and so on. Give players less stuff to sell, and having a shop thread will feel more optional.

In terms of making trading fun, UI isn't as important as metagame. Fun trading means making it harder to predict what the next flavor of the month is, making it harder to know which item is best-in-slot for which build, making it harder to know which three prefixes are best. Which means it's all about balance: build balance, unique balance, affix balance. You could have the sleekest UI in the world and trading would devolve to a D3 piece of shit if itemization is shit.

Both would be ideal but I doubt its possible. If trading is made easier then it becomes even more of a focus and I don't think that trading can become less of a focus unless GGG makes it even more difficult to do. Trying to fix both at the same time would require huge changes to the game that I doubt they will do at this point.

Maybe I'm wrong but thats just how I see it atm. Kind of why I support a SFL so that players have somewhere to go thats a vastly different experience from the current game. I don't see these problems going away so a new league would be a vast help. People who say that you can already play the game by ignoring trading are correct but they should also recognize the reasons that some players would really enjoy their own league other than making their own mini game in the current leagues.

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iamstryker wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

In terms of making trading fun, UI isn't as important as metagame. Fun trading means making it harder to predict what the next flavor of the month is, making it harder to know which item is best-in-slot for which build, making it harder to know which three prefixes are best. Which means it's all about balance: build balance, unique balance, affix balance. You could have the sleekest UI in the world and trading would devolve to a D3 piece of shit if itemization is shit.

If trading is made easier then it becomes even more of a focus and I don't think that trading can become less of a focus unless GGG makes it even more difficult to do. Trying to fix both at the same time would require huge changes to the game that I doubt they will do at this point.

I didn't say easier, I said more fun. Actually, every type of "more fun" I listed would make trading harder, but from a skill perspective, not for a UI or arbitrary restriction perspective.