Scrotie wants YOU to help prevent PoE's economy from becoming more like D3's

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

You're still in the mindset of the economy controlling you, putting every value in perspective of the economy. You should trade according to what the item is worth to you, not to "the community."

That's how real world economy works, lol! The price is defined by the market supply/demand & competition, not made up individually. If you are not competitive, you are out. The economy is in fact controlling itself, puting every value in perspective of the (public) market.

That's a healthy economy. You otoh, are kinda advocating cartels, monopoly, scams and similar crap that is possible in a shadowed, obfuscated system where the majority of participants dont know "real" item values (which are closely tied to droprates and not "builds" or your sentimental attachment).

You can value your low-level unique trash a few exalts if you want, but in a healthy economy nobody will give a damn, because the average market price will be readily known.

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syrioforel wrote:

I want a concrete number with justification.

I go on and on about how I don't want universal prices, and yet you continue to ask me for one. What about subjective, individual pricing do you not get?

The best answer I can give you: I wouldn't trade it for orbs. At all. Any orb, wouldn't matter. I might try to get a Cast When Damage Taken for it, but I'd understand that would be in my favor. If I needed either Chain, GMP, Cast on Crit, or Conc Effect, I'd probably trade it for one of those. Naturally I wouldn't be interested if I didn't need one of those, because I wouldn't be interested in anything I didn't need. In other words, I'd base its value off the quest reward.

Assuming I didn't need one of those (and none of my characters do at the moment), I'd probably try to get a weapon upgrade.

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syrioforel wrote:

As a buyer, if a price is too high, you don't buy. You find other options.

If you cannot find other options, you're in no position to claim the price was too high. Maybe you can't meet the price. Then, you'll have to find a way to allow yourself to meet the price if you really need that item. Otherwise, you're screwed.

As a seller, if no one is buying, you drop your price.

If sellers don't hold monopoly power, there's incentive to undercut the competition among sellers, and the price will drop if they start off too high.

If sellers do hold monopoly power, they will rip you off a bit.

If prices start too high, they eventually drop. Otherwise, they weren't too high.

Well, you do have a point, but cases of monopoly power in poe are far and between, mostly with extremely high end items such as a kaoms/shavs/mirror worthy stuff; but I'm aware I won't EVER be able to buy those so I won't even bother setting my mind on getting them.

I was trying to go more for an average joe approach, the items that are plentiful and there's no shortage of supply that's sustained in time for too long; there's always time to wait for a deal on those, as minimal as the deal might be, I never settled for buying at the exact equilibrium point or in the seller's favour; that's where barter/haggle comes in for me, to try to tip the scale of value in my favour.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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syrioforel wrote:

I want a concrete number with justification.

I go on and on about how I don't want universal prices, and yet you continue to ask me for one. What about subjective, individual pricing do you not get?

But the price would be subjective to me too, right?

Let's say you have chain, you don't like it for your build. I have multistrike and you want it.


Let's play pretend now : chain is a gem that drops fairly often, as opposed to multistrike which drops not so often and only shows up in pretty much one of the last quests in the game.

If according to your subjective pricing multistrike is about the same as chain, given they have the same use to X and Y builds (playing more pretend), but multistrike is less plentiful; woudn't that eventually make all those people like yourself who want a multistrike gem compete and offer two chains instead of one? or maybe chain + gmp? woudn't that set a price for multistrike that according to your subjective pricing is not "correct"? how is this any different from the current situation where "prices" would be set by how rare and desired an item is?

Or what if I don't value your chain as much? if I think my multistrike is worth more becuase... it's red, or whatever other reason?

Trading in this game is atrocious. Anything that makes it less suicide inducing is a good thing.
So I disagree with OP.

Not endorsing

introducing easier trading means and methods further erode the incentive to craft items yourself.

the argument that crafting is not worth the orbs to spend on is not valid, it's prices on the market which are too low (if a 6 linked chest needs 1000 fusings on average it should sell for that price) or orbs being too rare.

buying items from the market should be a last resort, i cannot understand how someone can be proud to have beaten the game if he flipped items on the market and bought his gear from other players?!

trading needs to be more (or at least equally) difficult than grinding and finding or crafting items.

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Nephalim wrote:

poe would honestly not even be playable from a gear progression side if poexplorer and xyz did not exist.

thats just wrong.

I really don't understand why attack indexing sites, unless you have some personal agenda (profits, power, etc.). All the information that is listed on those indexers is already listed on the forums.

It's not the indexers fault that we have buyouts, those exists in the forums and trade chats, not on the indexers themselves. So we are really just attacking ease of use?

Just because the forums are a horrible place to browse through, should we ban 3rd party solutions? Should we also start banning anyone using a script to pull that data for themselves?

What if I just put a script that pulls the data to pastebin for free? So that anyone can run their own poe.xyz?

Trying to restrict the flow on information at this age is just horrible, I'm not sure how people have managed to miss all the consequences of what happens when we start censoring information.

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Hyskoa wrote:

Trading in this game is atrocious. Anything that makes it less suicide inducing is a good thing.
So I disagree with OP.

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geradon wrote:

introducing easier trading means and methods further erode the incentive to craft items yourself.

the argument that crafting is not worth the orbs to spend on is not valid, it's prices on the market which are too low (if a 6 linked chest needs 1000 fusings on average it should sell for that price) or orbs being too rare.

buying items from the market should be a last resort, i cannot understand how someone can be proud to have beaten the game if he flipped items on the market and bought his gear from other players?!

trading needs to be more (or at least equally) difficult than grinding and finding or crafting items.

I'm sorry Geradon, but WTF?

there is no "incentive to craft yourself". read my previous post.
read my thousand previous posts since February.

and making stuff cost 10X more on the "market" than they do now, has only one possible outcome: the amount of people being able to actually achieve something in the game becoming 1/10 of what it is now. the amount of people finishing their builds and obtaining high-level-gear-check-passing gear, will be one in a thousand instead of one in a hundred.

it will not make people craft more, because currently there is no such thing as crafting. it's called gambling, and it's done with random chips determined by RNG.
and RNG doesn't care who you are, how long have you been playing, or what have you accomplished in the game thus far.
RNG can completely randomly decide if it rewards you, or fucks you.
it does so in both drops, and gambling using said drops. it's everywhere.
reward isn't a function of risk. it never was in Path Of Exile. not while I was playing, at least.

dammit I can write a wall of text right now, from all that is wrong with your post.
starting with "beating the game with bought gear". what's "beating the game"? Normal? Merciless? highest maps?
how do you plan on even getting there self-found - with the horrendous RNG following you every step of the way, and gear-checks repeatedly smacking you in the face?
in SC, Anuhart played 4000 hours to get there alone.
I'm not talking about HC Jesus fucking Christ. I'm stuck there in Act 2 Cruel, knowing RIP is only a matter of time, unless I buy better gear.

you being an Alpha Player - part of a small "elite" group who's "job" it is to test out the game - suddenly explains a lot of GGG's design decisions.
and if other Alphas share your opinion, then we are all fucking screwed.