DIABLO III ?... HA! More like "DIABLO FAIL"

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iamstryker wrote:

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ExileDude wrote:

Diablo 3 was obviously a financial success but IN MY OPINION it failed because it has hurt the reputation of the Diablo franchise. I am only guessing that there won't be nearly as many people buying the next Diablo game Day 1 as Diablo 3 because of all of its issues. It doesn't look like you were nearly as disappointed as me in Diablo 3. I seriously cringe at even thinking about ever playing it again. I continue to stay up to date on how the game is doing but I don't think I could bring myself to really play it again.

Let's try another approach, please. If you didn't stay updated on the game, you wouldn't be interested in it. So what part(s) made you so disappointed that you will never give it another chance? It can't have been (just?) the graphics, as you really should have known how it looks before you bought the game. So what was it? If it's a gameplay thing, they change it all the time as needed. Too few levels? Not anymore. ;) No loot? They, uh, doubled it. *grins* Too easy? Too hard? They have balanced it since day one, and they are continuing to balance it. Too many disconnects online? They solved it. The list goes on, but the point is, the Diablo 3 we have today is not the one we had for launch.

And yes, I was probably not as disappointed as you. I honestly can't tell, as I don't know you and don't know how you reacted. What I do know is I love ARPGs like this, and one of the main reasons is because I love finding loot and feeling I develop my own character. I love how the skill system in Diablo 3 works, but loot? Now that's a different matter. But they have improved that a lot, so it's turning into a game I love. And chances are you will love it too in a few months or a year. Or even after the expansion comes around. The thing is, there are already tons of players who do love the game far more than me, and a lot of them will buy the expansion on day one. Many do it because they love the game, and many do it to give the game another chance. There will always be people who was so disappointed in it that they won't consider the expansion, but they are the minority. You know the saying: "The empty barrel rattles the most."? If I was very disappointed in a game, I'd like nothig more than to get out some frustration, and probably on a forum if I was younger. But if I loved the game, I would be quiet, as I'm too busy playing it. ;)

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ExileDude wrote:

Let's try another approach, please. If you didn't stay updated on the game, you wouldn't be interested in it. So what part(s) made you so disappointed that you will never give it another chance? It can't have been (just?) the graphics, as you really should have known how it looks before you bought the game. So what was it? If it's a gameplay thing, they change it all the time as needed. Too few levels? Not anymore. ;) No loot? They, uh, doubled it. *grins* Too easy? Too hard? They have balanced it since day one, and they are continuing to balance it. Too many disconnects online? They solved it. The list goes on, but the point is, the Diablo 3 we have today is not the one we had for launch.

I stay updated on the game to see if my predictions come true or not, sort of like FireSkull here I now love to hate the game. I don't do that with any other game JUST Diablo 3 because of what they did with my favorite franchise. The stuff that you listed there doesn't even touch on my issues with the game but since your interested I will mention a few of them....

1) The loot in D3 is messed up on multiple levels. Your main hand weapon controls all of your damage for all classes stupid decision. There is a small handful of mods that EVERYONE uses to make their character powerful. I did not fully see how horrible it was until I had reached the end game. Gems are so stupid and boring, its an obvious choice which gem to use for ANY character.....Socket in your helm? Hmmm how about life%, in your armor or pants? How about main stat etc etc. They may as well not put gems into the game at all they really don't add anything. The worst offense was how they treated legendaries. Releasing the game with them like that is completely ridiculous in my eyes. They buffed them recently but it didn't matter. They completely fail as uniques they are just slightly enhanced rares that are BORING.

2) The grind for good loot is even more awful because of the game being built for the RMAH. Good equipment is super hard to find since the AH/RMAH are there for you to look through the loot that EVERY player has found and wants to sell. So of course the loot can't drop like D1 or D2. Although that's mostly just a side issue since the loot is already boring for the reasons I listed above. Of course the loot problems just go hand in hand with my next issue..

3) There is NO interesting customization in Diablo 3. Every character plays similar. This is because A) Skills are free to change at any time, B)The end game is very difficult with rares that do unavoidable damage so every player feels REQUIRED to use the same cookie cutter builds that are the most viable to survive, C) Loot also offers no real diversity. So this means that there are only slight differences between any class that you see. Every character you see feels like the same one. The biggest differences between your wizard and another wizard is how powerful their gear is verses yours. Do they have more all resists, mainstat, higher damage weapon?

4) Replayability- There is no reason to ever level the same class twice. Also, my plan playing ARPG's is always to get to the end game and farm for cool gear to put towards the other classes. I never found ANYTHING that made me want to roll another class. This was mostly because items no piece of equipment in the game provides anything other than raw power and defense. Nothing was interesting enough to keep for another class. You have to get absurd amounts of gold in order to purchase good equipment so if you find something decent that your not going to use you have to put it on the AH to collect more stupid friggin gold.

5) Communication/trade. On one hand it was brilliant for Blizzard to put in the RMAH. They profit from every trade made so can make alot of dough. On the other hand it has really helped kill their credibility as developers. As I mentioned before, D3 was built for the auction houses which keeps players from finding their own loot. On top of that now you stare at a stupid list of items. Instead of actually interacting and communicating with people you spend time by yourself playing the auction house tycoon mini game.

6) Cheating/Bots. When it was announced that D3 would be always online I was under the impression that Blizzard, being the massive company that they are, would do everything that they could to keep cheating and bots out of their game. That wasn't even slightly the case. Most players believe that Blizzard is fine with the bots since the botters use the RMAH and therefore generate them more income. D3 has become a job for alot of the playerbase and a Pay 2 Win game for others. Its just so far from anything I expected D3 to be.

I haven't even finished but I think that you get the idea.

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ExileDude wrote:

And yes, I was probably not as disappointed as you. I honestly can't tell, as I don't know you and don't know how you reacted. What I do know is I love ARPGs like this, and one of the main reasons is because I love finding loot and feeling I develop my own character. I love how the skill system in Diablo 3 works, but loot? Now that's a different matter. But they have improved that a lot, so it's turning into a game I love. And chances are you will love it too in a few months or a year. Or even after the expansion comes around. The thing is, there are already tons of players who do love the game far more than me, and a lot of them will buy the expansion on day one. Many do it because they love the game, and many do it to give the game another chance. There will always be people who was so disappointed in it that they won't consider the expansion, but they are the minority. You know the saying: "The empty barrel rattles the most."? If I was very disappointed in a game, I'd like nothig more than to get out some frustration, and probably on a forum if I was younger. But if I loved the game, I would be quiet, as I'm too busy playing it. ;)

The problem is IMO your really not developing your own character. Your funneled to the same skills that the majority of players use to grind inferno. You use the same high end legendaries ( I have looked its retarded), You use the same gems. Everything is just so generic.

Nothing short of scrapping the game and starting completely over would get me to play it again, and even then I would be highly skeptical.

How far are you in D3 anyway?

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iamstryker wrote:

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ExileDude wrote:

How far are you in D3 anyway?

You do have some valid points, I can see that. As for me, I've reached Inferno, but haven't really started it. What puzzles me a bit is that you say everyone is required to use the same cookie cutter builds at endgame? But isn't the whole point with Inferno that it's supposed to be so difficult that not everyone can finish it? If it's really that difficult, it makes perfect sense that people are required to use the best skills to stand a chance. That's why we can switch skills in the first place. The best skills in one boss fight isn't necessarily the best skill in the next.

Also, the skill system means we have a lot of progression through the whole game, and we don't have to worry about making a mistake we'll pay for twenty hours later. If you put the "wrong" stat point in Diablo 2 early on, you won't survive long at higher levels. This meant everyone scanned the 'net for all sorts of "perfect" builds, just so they wouldn't have to worry about placing a stat point wrong, or choosing the wrong skill. Diablo 3 takes care of all that, so the only thing you have to worry about is staying alive right now. You can't put a stat point wrong, as you don't allocate any. And you can't pick the wrong skill, as you get all skills anyway. Plus, if you decide a skill is boring, simply switch it. It allows for a lot more freedom, so you can focus on having a lot of fun instead of calculating every last skill point and stat point every time you level up.

Also keep in mind you got your last skill in Diablo 2 at level 30. After that, we're talking 69 (!) skills without any kind of progression at all. That meant the first 30 levels are fun, but after that, leveling up is pointless. And if leveling up is pointless, the whole game gets boring. What's the point in beating Diablo for the tenth time in a row, and especially if you get nothing to show for it? Diablo 3 solves this by having less levels, but gives you skills at almost every single level. That means leveling up actually means something for a change. It makes it worth it to aim for the next level, if you are lvl 5 or level 50. How can that be a bad thing?

And as for replayability, why does it matter? Who bothered leveling up the same character ten times anyway in Diablo 2? I'd much rather level up my character once and focus on having fun. :)

Why is a wall of text even needed when all of us (read: the fellows who paid money to get in on it) got trolled hard enough to see it right in front of us? Call me a conspiracy theorist but I'm also pretty sure they might have nicked a couple of bits and pieces from BrotherLaz's Median XL for their "endgame" quest of the same name. That alone stings.

Jay Wilson doubled it

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ExileDude wrote:

You do have some valid points, I can see that. As for me, I've reached Inferno, but haven't really started it. What puzzles me a bit is that you say everyone is required to use the same cookie cutter builds at endgame? But isn't the whole point with Inferno that it's supposed to be so difficult that not everyone can finish it? If it's really that difficult, it makes perfect sense that people are required to use the best skills to stand a chance. That's why we can switch skills in the first place. The best skills in one boss fight isn't necessarily the best skill in the next.

Also, the skill system means we have a lot of progression through the whole game, and we don't have to worry about making a mistake we'll pay for twenty hours later. If you put the "wrong" stat point in Diablo 2 early on, you won't survive long at higher levels. This meant everyone scanned the 'net for all sorts of "perfect" builds, just so they wouldn't have to worry about placing a stat point wrong, or choosing the wrong skill. Diablo 3 takes care of all that, so the only thing you have to worry about is staying alive right now. You can't put a stat point wrong, as you don't allocate any. And you can't pick the wrong skill, as you get all skills anyway. Plus, if you decide a skill is boring, simply switch it. It allows for a lot more freedom, so you can focus on having a lot of fun instead of calculating every last skill point and stat point every time you level up.

Also keep in mind you got your last skill in Diablo 2 at level 30. After that, we're talking 69 (!) skills without any kind of progression at all. That meant the first 30 levels are fun, but after that, leveling up is pointless. And if leveling up is pointless, the whole game gets boring. What's the point in beating Diablo for the tenth time in a row, and especially if you get nothing to show for it? Diablo 3 solves this by having less levels, but gives you skills at almost every single level. That means leveling up actually means something for a change. It makes it worth it to aim for the next level, if you are lvl 5 or level 50. How can that be a bad thing?

And as for replayability, why does it matter? Who bothered leveling up the same character ten times anyway in Diablo 2? I'd much rather level up my character once and focus on having fun.

I understand your point of view a lot better now that I know you haven't started the end game yet. D3's glaring issues don't stand out until your grinding inferno. So we can discuss this a lot easier once you have played a lot more.

One thing I love about POE is that there are a ton of builds that are viable in the end game. They might not be as good as other builds that have more DPS and therefore can farm faster, but they are still viable. In D3 you can't play the end game without using the same skills as every other player. I find that boring in a genre of game thats supposed to stay interesting for a long time. Skills can be different and have different functions but its really stupid to have skills that flat out suck so you can't even use them if you wanted to.

Look at the witch doctor for example. Whats the first no brainer build that should be viable for the whole game.....A SUMMONER. You can't even use your minions as a Witch Doctor in the Diablo 3 end game because they just aren't good enough. That is retarded.

I have no desire to defend Diablo 2. I played Diablo 2 back when it didn't have any respec system and I honestly had a lot of issues with that. I didn't like how skills became obsolete over time and if you messed up you were completely stuck with it. However Diablo 2 has the replayability down. I think you will change your mind about D3's replayability after you have played it longer and then played Path of Exile. Its a HUGE difference.

For me a big part of the fun in these games is replaying new builds. You will see in the D3 forums everyday how people are getting bored fast over there. Its because of the replayability issues. They have nothing to do but grind for slightly better equipment and it has hurt the game a lot. You will see what I mean I promise.

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iamstryker wrote:

In D3 you can't play the end game without using the same skills as every other player.

That is simply not true at all.