The REAL truth exposed!! (Brought to you by a player in top 10)

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UnderOmerta wrote:

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PlaceholderText wrote:

but making your items worth less real money for rmt means legit players have less legit enjoyment finding them... rmt pricers aren't stupid and the only way to decrease prices is to truly decrease value...

And this is a problem, why? Who cares what your items in game are worth in real money? The only people that care about this are the RMTers themselves. As long as the items in the game are balanced accordingly, and they are obtainable through a fair level of effort, it shouldn't matter what their actual value on the open market is.

Like I said, your argument predicates upon the ideal that real money trading is wrong, but at the same time taking the economic implications and consequences of real money trading in stride. This is a blatant contradiction of terms.

wrong.... maybe its you that doesn't understand economics...

let's assume that sex is a good, but prostitution is an evil, and our protagonist is a hollywood actress who wants to increase her sex appeal... a survey that asked men "how much would you pay to have sex with her?" would be a good measure of her sex appeal, assuming they were injected with truth serum first (in other words, honest)...

in the same way, the price of poe items on rmt sites is an accurate estimation of their true value to legit players, assuming the rmt sites compete with each other and no price fixing or monopolization is going on (in other words, honest)...

which means destroying the rmt prices is synonymous with destroying the real value of goods to the legit player base, which is the only base we should give a flying fuck about...

how about we just shut down the poe servers permanently... that would kill rmt for sure...

hyperbole? yeah... but the principle doesn't change... basing the game around cheaters degrades the experience for the real playerbase by making noncheaters no longer the target audience...

the ethical question here is: where do you draw the line when it comes to designing the game around cheaters rather than its intended audience?

my answer... cheating should be dealt with, but it is a security and investigations problem, never a game design problem

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PlaceholderText wrote:

wrong.... maybe its you that doesn't understand economics...

let's assume that sex is a good, but prostitution is an evil, and our protagonist is a hollywood actress who wants to increase her sex appeal... a survey that asked men "how much would you pay to have sex with her?" would be a good measure of her sex appeal, assuming they were injected with truth serum first (in other words, honest)...

in the same way, the price of poe items on rmt sites is an accurate estimation of their true value to legit players, assuming the rmt sites compete with each other and no price fixing or monopolization is going on (in other words, honest)...

No, not quite. Exchange values are dictated by the relative value of holding a certain form of currency over the alternative. This is true in all forms of forex trading.

In terms of relative value in POE, gear and items have a certain value because they are X amount better than their peers. Thus, for example, having a Kaom's is an X amount greater than having another armor in its place. Why is having a Kaom's valuable? Because it creates such an enormous advantage over not having it that it makes people desperate to have it. It's value over replacement is enormous, such that people want it because not having it puts them at a disadvantage.

In terms of maps and currency, why are they valuable to RMTers? Because it is literally impossible to level high leveled characters without them, thus their value over replacement is enormous, to the point where you put yourself at a disadvantage by not having it.

The problem is that this hurts the players that don't RMT even more, because even if there are NO RMTers, high level players are still unable to continue progress on their characters. Grinding level 70 maps as a level 90+ is not fun or rewarding, and there is no incentive to keep doing it because there's no guarantee that they'll get higher level maps. Thus, a lot of higher level characters have simply quit the game.

The mechanic lends itself to either spending money to keep going, getting bored and leaving, or becoming a masochist.

You're not supposed to run lvl 77 maps over and over. Amazing how people in CB understood this, while in OB they don't. People got to the mid 80s when the highest lvl map was 69.

Seriously, understand that getting to 100 is supposed to take a long ass time. People will pay money to cheat for exp, for gear, for he lulz. They should be banned. Simple as that.

as long as your complaints of the system begin with "even if there were no rmters" (or its just implied), then your criticism of the game design is based on the true design and not the cheater subversion... which means i have no qualm with it... or at worst a totally different, separate qualm...

im not trying to say the game (droprates) are perfect, im saying designing to a cheating audience is bad design

edit: snumbers gets it

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PlaceholderText wrote:

as long as your complaints of the system begin with "even if there were no rmters" (or its just implied), then your criticism of the game design is based on the true design and not the cheater subversion... which means i have no qualm with it... or at worst a totally different, separate qualm...

im not trying to say the game (droprates) are perfect, im saying designing to a cheating audience is bad design

edit: snumbers gets it

And the game as it currently stands is already poorly balanced for non-cheaters. That's why there's so many cheaters.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

You're not supposed to run lvl 77 maps over and over. Amazing how people in CB understood this, while in OB they don't. People got to the mid 80s when the highest lvl map was 69.

Seriously, understand that getting to 100 is supposed to take a long ass time. People will pay money to cheat for exp, for gear, for he lulz. They should be banned. Simple as that.

Great, now try to level past 90 with 69 maps and tell me how far you get before you quit.

So basically your solution is to not play high level characters. I see. Thanks for contributing.

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UnderOmerta wrote:

And the game as it currently stands is already poorly balanced for non-cheaters. That's why there's so many cheaters.

perhaps, but the motivation for fixing the game is improving the noncheat/true experience, not reducing cheating... if we wanted to reduce cheating we'd just up enforcement...

droprates are 100% off-topic to cheating... op is just a hypocrite and you bought into his hypocrisy...

ban all cheaters, including op's real acct... no other sentiment is appropriate in this thread
discuss droprates elsewhere

Very real post~! Again point out a very serious issue,

With all the penalty to prevent the char get progression after they hit high level, people are quitting. And now the high-end player says they would not want to experience all these pain again, which pretty much demonstrate the flaw of the end game system.

GGG - please

- Balance the current RNG
- Cancel the XP / drop penalty
- Allows all level map drop in any map / merciless 3 area.

No one want to spend 1 month to get 1 passive node when they hit 85+, and no one really want to count on luck to get progress on their char. In the end of the day, this is a grinding game... People dont like grind for nothing.

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PlaceholderText wrote:

perhaps, but the motivation for fixing the game is improving the noncheat/true experience, not reducing cheating... if we wanted to reduce cheating we'd just up enforcement...

I agree. I'm saying the two are more closely related than you give it credit for.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

You're not supposed to run lvl 77 maps over and over. Amazing how people in CB understood this, while in OB they don't. People got to the mid 80s when the highest lvl map was 69.

Seriously, understand that getting to 100 is supposed to take a long ass time. People will pay money to cheat for exp, for gear, for he lulz. They should be banned. Simple as that.

You expect the game to develop at some point. The only reason it was accepted in CB was because there was another difficulty and it was a CLOSED BETA.

Open Beta nowadays is just another word for "well it actually has been released but we dont wanna admit that yet", thats how it has always been.

Currently theres a lot of stuff going wrong, not only the fact that endgame mapping isnt accessible enough. The crafting system is a joke with more and more useless mods getting patched into the game making exalted more of a gamble than they ever were. The 1 month completely destroyed the HC leagues economy. And a lot of other stuff that doesnt go right at the moment.

You also purposely dont seem to want to understand that theres a big difference between chaining 77 maps and having to replay 69 maps because you rolled 74+ maps didnt yield any fruit. Noone is asking for Shipyards dropping all over the place but anything above 73+ shouldnt require you to invest a shit load of currency into it and not even reward you.

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nynyny wrote:

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SL4Y3R wrote:

You're not supposed to run lvl 77 maps over and over. Amazing how people in CB understood this, while in OB they don't. People got to the mid 80s when the highest lvl map was 69.

Seriously, understand that getting to 100 is supposed to take a long ass time. People will pay money to cheat for exp, for gear, for he lulz. They should be banned. Simple as that.

You expect the game to develop at some point. The only reason it was accepted in CB was because there was another difficulty and it was a CLOSED BETA.

[...]

You also purposely dont seem to want to understand that theres a big difference between chaining 77 maps and having to replay 69 maps because you rolled 74+ maps didnt yield any fruit. Noone is asking for Shipyards dropping all over the place but anything above 73+ shouldnt require you to invest a shit load of currency into it and not even reward you.

Bingo.

There's nothing more frustrating than getting a string of high level maps interrupted after you sunk hundreds of chaos into them, only to have to start over with 69 maps.