The REAL truth exposed!! (Brought to you by a player in top 10)
" you are probably right Moosifer. Real Money Trade cannot be killed entirely unless the game is offline-based and/or has cheats and/or mod support. still, cutting demand by increasing in-game effort/reward ratios and significantly reducing RNG's devastating role in progress, while at the same time banning people - will serve two purposes: 1) the prices in the few remaining RMT sites will drop significantly from the ripoff they are today, because most players will no longer rely on them for in-game progress. their only customers will be people who are willing to "cut corners", and your friend with the bad connection :) 2) everybody will be encouraged to play legit. partially due to fear of the banhammer, but mostly because you'll be able to actually get somewhere this way - instead of being stuck at level 75 with no real way to progress to level 76 because you have no maps, no meaningful currency, and you don't want to do 100 Act 3 Merciless runs just to *maybe* get a few level 66 maps (which are useless to you at this point). so how to "increase in-game effort/reward ratios and reducine RNG's devastating role in progress"? one way is to add a vendor to the Eternal Laboratory. a vendor who would sell white maps for all levels, plus have chisels, special recipes for high currency (Chaos Orbs and above) and lower rates for other map-crafting currency like Orbs Of Chance, Alchemy, Alteration and Augmentation. why? because if you got this far, you "deserve" to enjoy "VIP prices". why maps for all levels? because that will create the challenge cycle I mentioned in my previous post, which will be yet another reason to keep playing. also, make beating a map ( = beating the map's boss) solo more rewarding. you can't expect everybody to stack 300 IIQ and/or 200 IIR (before map bonuses), because some people just can't afford to do that. I know I can't. I need the "slightly" more important modifiers I have on my equipped gear: resists, HP, attack speed and damage... Alva: I'm sweating like a hog in heat
Shadow: That was fun |
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A significant increase in orb rates will only wedge a larger gap between heavy players and casuals. It's not the same as uniques. You increase the unique rate and everyone has more access to make builds with them. You increase drop rates and people who were poor now have some spending but everyone who was rich, got even more rich. The items that are now going for 10-50 exalts will follow the same increase of the drop rate. We end up in the same spot, the people who needed to buy orbs to be competitive before still need to buy orbs now, just buying larger quantities.
If GGG keeps their current view of mapping, you'll never see all maps sold at vendors, at best you'll see 66, maybe 67s. They want higher maps to be hard to get, they want it as an achievement. While I use to agree, I'm now seeing that it seems to create more frustration than it does reward. Also I don't think they like doing stuff like that because they end up putting firm prices on things rather than letting it be a free market, which seems to be what they want. Having a floor price on 66s isn't going to do much but on a 77 can really hinder haggling as people would only look for a deal cheaper than what the vendor is selling it for. In CB a 69 map during the month race sold for like 30 gcps (which I'm pretty sure would be equal to 30 exalts now). After the race was over they weren't selling for much higher than 10. I don't think GGG likes messing with this type of player interaction. Finished 17th in Rampage - Peaked at 11th Finished 18th in Torment/Bloodline 1mo Race - peaked at 9th Null's Inclination Build 2.1.0 - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1559063 Summon Skeleton 1.3 - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1219856 Last edited by Moosifer#0314 on May 13, 2013, 7:07:18 AM
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" You do realize it is the RMT/Botters/etc. that help sustain your economy right? Without a small group that is pumping in an extra flow of economy, your demand will completely outpace your supply and the economy crashes, with prices getting massively inflated and your whole player base getting pissed off. See early vanilla WoW when Blizzard was religiously banning every botter/RMT/etc. as much as they could. They eventually stopped because they realized that as long as they controlled the botting/RMT so that it was not rampant, it was actually beneficial because the casual players would be able to eventually get into end game whereas without the botters/RMT they would never get there. |
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This thread is funny because it's true, regardless of wealth of time invested, that less and less people are actually giving a shit about this game because its economic mechanics are more akin to an mmo (which it is) than an arpg.
Of course, an mmo is all about dumping massive amounts of time and grinding for (relatively) little actual rewards. This is just not an old-school inspired ARPG like it claims to be. It wants to be, but it can't. Because it's online and the economic model sucks. Path of PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW
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" you and I view things very differently. while you think Botters and RMT are essential to in-game economy (and I couldn't disagree more) - I think an economy that relies on Botters to balance it, and casual players not being able to get to end-game, are both the result of very bad game design. good design, is where everybody can get to end-game if they are good enough. and if you aren't good enough, you should either try harder until you are, or go play some other game. a "casual player" will just take more time to do it, but should never, ever hit a wall that isn't the direct result of his own mistakes. "be an extremely RNG-lucky no-lifer or you'll never see a level 70+ map"? that's so wrong, it's "beyond words" wrong. when you put economy before fun, and reward the player not based on his/her skills but according to some twisted cold-blooded randomization - you get just that: a game that isn't fun. a piece of software you can describe as anything but a game. worse: you get a fertile soil for any and all kinds of Botter/Farmer/Spammer and RMT fungus. and once you started growing that fungus, you can't stop it no matter how big and heavy your banhammer is. and @Moosifer, first you need to define "hard to get" when it comes to maps. the Lab vendor can sell only white 66-68 maps, but have a recipe for 70+ maps. and that recipe needs to be a function of pure player effort. for example, the unique in a level 68 map has a high chance to drop an artifact, and 4 such artifacts combine to create a white level 72 map at the Lab vendor. GGG's current definition of "hard to get" is something along the lines of "get lucky or screw you". and it's a global definition that applies to just about everything in the game. they call this "hardcore". I call it "bull-crap". Alva: I'm sweating like a hog in heat Shadow: That was fun Last edited by johnKeys#6083 on May 13, 2013, 8:04:11 AM
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I got rewarded PLENTY in WoW for my time, it never felt unrewarding.
Also, big huge LOL at the guy saying botters are cool for the economy. What else? And Blizz STILL bans WoW cheaters if there is proof, never saw any changes from Vanilla to Cata. There is 0 (ZERO) tolerance for RMT and exploiting and botting. And it is up to the devs to make the endgame accessible. That's why there can be multiple difficulty levels, suited for anybody from casuals to hardcores, with different rewards obviously. placeholder for creative sig
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"What you call rewards, I call massive chunks of game content. Players who stick to anything but Merciless are missing out on a large amount of game content (Maps and high level loot). Computer specifications: Windows 10 Pro x64 | AMD Ryzen 5800X3D | ASUS Crosshair VIII Hero (WiFi) Motherboard | 32GB 3600MHz RAM | MSI Geforce 1070Ti Gamer | Corsair AX 760watt PSU | Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD & Crucial MX 500 4TB SSD's Last edited by Nicholas_Steel#0509 on May 13, 2013, 8:12:27 AM
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" No it doesn't. The quantity or orbs you need to roll maps doesn't change. So if you increase orb drop rates, then players can sustain their map pool without going broke. That's half the incentive of going to RMT down the drain. Increasing currency also makes crafting more enticing. At this point, it's not even worth spending fusings even on a 4l unless you're a.) rich or b.) sure the item is endgame/going to last you a long time, because even a 4l can take you 40, 50, 60+ fusings if you're unlucky. For that same price, you can buy something that's 4l'd already and has decent rolls. This applies exponentially more with 5ls and 6ls. The only time it's worth crafting is if you have a hugely high ilvl base and really can't find anything out on the market that suits your needs. Yeah, the rich will have more money. But guess what? The rich will always have more money. People who play more tend to get wealthier than people who play less. That is and SHOULD be true. In fact, it's debatable that it's NOT true enough as it is. Trying to make balance changes based on "the richer shouldn't get richer" is bogus both from an economic and gameplay standpoint. It doesn't matter if the wealthiest guy in the game has a million mirrors, as long as 95% of the players find the game averagely rewarding. |
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If it takes you 50 fusings to make a 4L then you should probably just quit the game....
Spoiler
The almight RNG God must really hate you
Standard Forever
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" Sounds like banning the top20 would be a good start. " & this guy is a mod...FML. |
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