Do all the XP penalty complainers just body brigade through the game? Honest question

Person A : "Look man, there's a huge turd in the hallway, can we get rid of it ?"
Person B : "What are you talking about it's been here for 15 years"
Person A : "hum OK, but everytime I pass in the hallway to do more important stuff I have to be careful not to step on it"
Person B : "that's the challenge! Some people like avoid walking on shit, and they have their challenge, maybe if you had better shoes or walk better ..."
Person A : "look man I don't care I just want to do my stuff-"
Person B : "shut up you entitled baby! The janitor decided to leave a turd in each of our hallways, do you think you know better than him ?"
Person A : "Ok ok, I don't want to mess with that, maybe we can add an extra hallway without shit that I can use"
Person B : "No ! If I have to avoid to step on it everyday, you're gonna have to do it too."
Person A : "oh ok.. so there's no solution"
Person B : "you can go to building D4. They have no shit on the floor but shit all over the walls."

"

SwabbieGaming#5830 wrote:

"

Nyon#6673 wrote:

I think your just under a misconception.

If you have a decent build that can clear top end content then every single one shot is avoidable. And to be clear im not defending on death effects, there is far too many of them and they are incredibly annoying especially in combination with other mechanics (phasing, etc). But im mapping top end maps all day and there isnt a single thing that kills me that I cant avoid.

The reason exp penalty is in the game is to discourage glass cannon builds and secondly so that reaching level 100 is a challenge and not just a time investment. You can have the opinion that its not fun and that it would be better without, thats fine, but those are still valid reasons that alot of us enjoy. In the end I think its very unlikely that ggg removes them since they didnt in poe1 and alot of people enjoy poe2 and defend the mechanics.
Best case scenario is that they tune it down abit.

If you play a Sorc where you rely on Frost Walls for defense AND offense, there are maps where the layouts are so bad you literally cannot place your walls. The tiny little rickety bridge paths in Mire are a prime example. This means just doing that map I am risking death every time because my offense AND defense are tied directly to my ability to place walls. That's not a player skill issue, that's a design issue. I don't have a choice to not do Mire. Sometimes it's a choke point on the atlas I HAVE to go through to get to the other side. This forces me to engage in risky "content" that I don't want to engage in, then I get punished for it if I die. My only solution here would be to either reset the entire atlas or try to push through it. Neither option is ideal.

1. Just so you dont misunderstand me I 100% agree, Mire is by far the worst map ever made. I also have a character who uses frost wall so I understand completetly.

2. You deffinetly can choose to not do mire. And even if you do run mire every mechanic you would die to is still 100% avoidable.

3. I dont disagree that there are maps, on death effects, and other mechanics that at the moment are terrible and leads to bad deaths. But your kinda taking my argument out of context. The point isnt if you would do mire or choose to skip it. If you were one of the few who had spent hundreds of hours trying to reach level 100 and you knew if you die you lose tens of hours of progress and you knew that mire is a map that you are much much more likely to die in, you would skip it.

"

alhazred70#2994 wrote:

If you're butting up against the XP penalty a lot: its because you're not playing the ARPG correctly. You're intentionally losing; Stop that. You'll enjoy the game a lot more if you stop intentionally losing.s hell not gaming.

No one is losing intentionally. You come home, want to play a game. You play a Tier map below your level. You can still die from it and lose all the previous days progress.

You want to do a harder map, because you can get one shotted in the low level maps anyway. So why not take some risk and get some XP finally. Well, you also can lose all your previous progress in 1 death.

In short, there is no reason to have it. It just artificially prolongs the game. Ppl with more time will ignore it and can get past it. But PoE2 was meant more for casual gamers. Atm it's just like PoE1 for hardcore gamers. Even hard games like Dark Souls did not do this. Even if you lost all your souls. You could explore other areas. Get good items. Even get stronger with out the souls. And you could retry bosses to get good at them with out your souls and still beat it and learn. Here, it punishes ppl that want to relax and have little time. And HEAVELY rewards the ppl that have more time and want to go A LOT more in depth on the game.

"

alhazred70#2994 wrote:

Your instinct as a gamer playing a hack and slash ARPG when you die to often should be to go back to a previous or optional zone and farm a bit. Get some upgrades, maybe a level. Why do you think you're supposed to just steamroll ahead until the last boss dies or you reach a leveling equalibrium because you lose XP throwing your face at it faster than you gain XP? Thats not the intent of the game or genre.

True, except you can go to "easy" zones. And still get one shotted in 1sec by a random yellow you can not see because the game has no health bars and hides it all very well with the background. Even ground effects are hard to see.

That is oc IF you have maps to use. I nearly got ALL my maps from playing public groups and picking up the leftovers. And i got ALL +way stone drop and rarity etc increases i could from the Atlas and upgraded way stones and tower. I have plenty of 0 way stone runs. And way stones WAAAAY under the tier i am running. Having a lot of times i am simply out of maps to do.

Also, get better gear? The market proves what is wrong with this game. The heavy time sinkers are already SO powerful and farming so much. There items are 150 divine to buy. And even the cheap crappy ones are 1 divine to buy. And for me, i have gotten 1. Count it 1 divine drop so far from maps. And the upgrade i got for that was very slightly better then the gear i had on. You can not get better gear in this game unless you are VERY lucky OR sink in a LOT of time. What again heavenly rewards those ppl. And f over the casual gamer. Coming home from work. Trying to relax.

"

alhazred70#2994 wrote:

Playing well in an ARPG mostly means killing things for loot until you're powerful and not dying. Unlike a souls game or a platformer or a strategy game, here the entire goal of the game is to outscale the content with a powerful character. NOT puzzle solving acumen, 4d chess, thinking 20 moves ahead, not precise flinch jumping skills at the pixel edge of a platform and not pattern recognition of what moves the enemy always does on repeat. (though ofc POE2 is weaving a bit of this in, again though its still mostly outscalable as it should be using the ARPG gameplay loop)

This is not a KRPG or JRPG hack and slash. This is not a grind fest. This was supposed to be the casual gamers version of PoE1. It is just PoE1 again tho. Most ppl agree the campaign was the most fun. Because what you did mattered. Atlas is just a benchmark fest. You run and things better die before they come in screen and can shoot. And some how, this is the panicle of the game? And you should feel like a god? I feel like a graphics card tester. Far from a god. A god where everything dies that's on screen with 0 challenge is not a fun way to be a god. Ppl want it to be about skill. Not about who has played the most hours and got the most expensive loot. Because this is not supposed to be a dress up game. But that is what it is and you are describing here.

"

alhazred70#2994 wrote:

Imagine this mindset in a strategy game: I'll just keep using the same tactic and hope for a different result via some RNG; sounds like the definition of insanity right? Its sure as hell not gaming.

That is however how this an PoE1's top players do to get to the top; No strategy in the combat. Just pure number crunching, time sinking and that's it. atm it IS "'just keep using the same tactic and hope for a different result" But the different outcome is just that the right loot drops. So you can go to a other Tier map. With the same tactic, only stronger attacks. And repeat the "just keep using the same tactic and hope for a different result" drop.

"

alhazred70#2994 wrote:

I know this seems obvious to some but the amount of complaining about XP penalty suggests that a LOT OF PEOPLE CLEARLY NEED TO HEAR IT.

Stop losing intentionally.

You obviously like JRPG/KRPG hack and slash grind games. That's ok. But that's not wat ALL hack and slash games are. Nor should they be. And that is not wat was promised with this game. And the fact you think ppl are "losing intentionally" shows how far detached you are from what a hack and slash can be. That you think it can and should only be 1 thing. And ppl that don't succeed as much as you are doing it wrong. At what point are you gone blame the game instead of the player.

Gamers like that is why we have had such a LONG line of bad games. Because they blame the player instead of the game. Because they can not accept there is something wrong with there precious game. But are usually the first to cry that the game is dead once they implement a change that makes them not that high ranked anymore as before.

Not saying you are like that. But most ppl with that mind set are sadly.

"

Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

Person A : "Look man, there's a huge turd in the hallway, can we get rid of it ?"
Person B : "What are you talking about it's been here for 15 years"
Person A : "hum OK, but everytime I pass in the hallway to do more important stuff I have to be careful not to step on it"
Person B : "that's the challenge! Some people like avoid walking on shit, and they have their challenge, maybe if you had better shoes or walk better ..."
Person A : "look man I don't care I just want to do my stuff-"
Person B : "shut up you entitled baby! The janitor decided to leave a turd in each of our hallways, do you think you know better than him ?"
Person A : "Ok ok, I don't want to mess with that, maybe we can add an extra hallway without shit that I can use"
Person B : "No ! If I have to avoid to step on it everyday, you're gonna have to do it too."
Person A : "oh ok.. so there's no solution"
Person B : "you can go to building D4. They have no shit on the floor but shit all over the walls."

+1

"

Nyon#6673 wrote:

I think your just under a misconception.

If you have a decent build that can clear top end content then every single one shot is avoidable. And to be clear im not defending on death effects, there is far too many of them and they are incredibly annoying especially in combination with other mechanics (phasing, etc). But im mapping top end maps all day and there isnt a single thing that kills me that I cant avoid.

The reason exp penalty is in the game is to discourage glass cannon builds and secondly so that reaching level 100 is a challenge and not just a time investment. You can have the opinion that its not fun and that it would be better without, thats fine, but those are still valid reasons that alot of us enjoy. In the end I think its very unlikely that ggg removes them since they didnt in poe1 and alot of people enjoy poe2 and defend the mechanics.
Best case scenario is that they tune it down abit.

I mean this sincerely, if your build is that good, you never get one shot, and are still doing high level content then start streaming. You are better than like 2/3rds of folks on twitch. At least. Admittedly anecdotal, but that just does not seem to be the common experience.

And that is exactly my point! You didn't say you liked it, you didn't say that it does something in a more enjoyable way, just that it stops glass cannon builds and makes reaching 100 "Not a time investment". It doesn't do the latter, at best it makes the time investment longer or makes the time investment a less fun experience. I am sorry if it takes this long to get to 100 even if you play it "right", then it being a time investment is the big challenge. As to the former, as discussed, there are plenty of alternate penalties that do the same thing. If you can open the game up so more people enjoy it without decreasing the difficulty or allowing those builds, why wouldn't you? XP loss offers nothing that other, better penalties don't also offer.


I don't expect it to change, but that doesn't stop me from giving feedback all over forums in the hopes GGG does change. I like this game and hope it becomes the most successful version of itself it can be and goes on for a long time.

If I have to spend all my time doing easy content that has no real risk of killing me I’m not playing the challenging game we were promised.

"

Rivance#3976 wrote:

If I have to spend all my time doing easy content that has no real risk of killing me I’m not playing the challenging game we were promised.

Why don't you challenge yourself to do harder content without dying ?

"

adrenrocker#5143 wrote:

"

Nyon#6673 wrote:

I think your just under a misconception.

If you have a decent build that can clear top end content then every single one shot is avoidable. And to be clear im not defending on death effects, there is far too many of them and they are incredibly annoying especially in combination with other mechanics (phasing, etc). But im mapping top end maps all day and there isnt a single thing that kills me that I cant avoid.

The reason exp penalty is in the game is to discourage glass cannon builds and secondly so that reaching level 100 is a challenge and not just a time investment. You can have the opinion that its not fun and that it would be better without, thats fine, but those are still valid reasons that alot of us enjoy. In the end I think its very unlikely that ggg removes them since they didnt in poe1 and alot of people enjoy poe2 and defend the mechanics.
Best case scenario is that they tune it down abit.

I mean this sincerely, if your build is that good, you never get one shot, and are still doing high level content then start streaming. You are better than like 2/3rds of folks on twitch. At least. Admittedly anecdotal, but that just does not seem to be the common experience.

And that is exactly my point! You didn't say you liked it, you didn't say that it does something in a more enjoyable way, just that it stops glass cannon builds and makes reaching 100 "Not a time investment". It doesn't do the latter, at best it makes the time investment longer or makes the time investment a less fun experience. I am sorry if it takes this long to get to 100 even if you play it "right", then it being a time investment is the big challenge. As to the former, as discussed, there are plenty of alternate penalties that do the same thing. If you can open the game up so more people enjoy it without decreasing the difficulty or allowing those builds, why wouldn't you? XP loss offers nothing that other, better penalties don't also offer.


I don't expect it to change, but that doesn't stop me from giving feedback all over forums in the hopes GGG does change. I like this game and hope it becomes the most successful version of itself it can be and goes on for a long time.

1. Its not so much that I cant get one shot, its more that the things that can one shot me are avoidable so it rarely happends. And sure its probably true that its a minority of the playerbase that have characters that are that strong, but also to be fair my character isnt that ridicilously strong, the character Im currently playing I litterally made 4 days ago.
But I think the point is that if your not at that level where your character can survive the most basic attacks then leveling to 100 shouldnt be your priority. You should be focusing on getting your defenses up, and your not missing out on much by being lvl 90 instead of 100 f.ex.
And if people wanna make feedback that there are too many unforgiving mechanics while gearing up, thats fair, but it by itself isnt relatable to exp penalty being removed. They should fix the mechanics that are overtuned/not working.

2. Weither I personally enjoy it or not isnt relevant, but there deffinetly are people who enjoy grinding to 100 and it being a challenge, and there is a substantial difference if you reach level 100 by default just as long as you play long enough and if you actually have to have a good build and avoid mechanics so you dont die. You could make the same argument that removing permanent death in hardcore wouldnt deminish the challenge of reaching level 100 because its still a huge time investment, which it is but it drasticly reduces the challenge and there are those who enjoy that. And even if I didnt like it (which I do) then if it makes a almost non existant difference to my character weither im 93 or 100 then why not have it for those that enjoy it?

"

SelkieTheSeal#5934 wrote:

"

Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

Person A : "Look man, there's a huge turd in the hallway, can we get rid of it ?"
Person B : "What are you talking about it's been here for 15 years"
Person A : "hum OK, but everytime I pass in the hallway to do more important stuff I have to be careful not to step on it"
Person B : "that's the challenge! Some people like avoid walking on shit, and they have their challenge, maybe if you had better shoes or walk better ..."
Person A : "look man I don't care I just want to do my stuff-"
Person B : "shut up you entitled baby! The janitor decided to leave a turd in each of our hallways, do you think you know better than him ?"
Person A : "Ok ok, I don't want to mess with that, maybe we can add an extra hallway without shit that I can use"
Person B : "No ! If I have to avoid to step on it everyday, you're gonna have to do it too."
Person A : "oh ok.. so there's no solution"
Person B : "you can go to building D4. They have no shit on the floor but shit all over the walls."

+1

+ 1 trillion lmao

"

Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

Person A : "Look man, there's a huge turd in the hallway, can we get rid of it ?"
Person B : "What are you talking about it's been here for 15 years"
Person A : "hum OK, but everytime I pass in the hallway to do more important stuff I have to be careful not to step on it"
Person B : "that's the challenge! Some people like avoid walking on shit, and they have their challenge, maybe if you had better shoes or walk better ..."
Person A : "look man I don't care I just want to do my stuff-"
Person B : "shut up you entitled baby! The janitor decided to leave a turd in each of our hallways, do you think you know better than him ?"
Person A : "Ok ok, I don't want to mess with that, maybe we can add an extra hallway without shit that I can use"
Person B : "No ! If I have to avoid to step on it everyday, you're gonna have to do it too."
Person A : "oh ok.. so there's no solution"
Person B : "you can go to building D4. They have no shit on the floor but shit all over the walls."

+1