"
"
"This game is the dark souls of the arpg genre! It's so hard and fun!!!" and "Never, ever do aspirational content where you risk dying." certainly go together like peanut butter and jelly for some of you folks. You can't have it both ways. Either it's a hard game and pushing yourself should be rewarding, or it's an easy game and choosing to do content that might actually kill you is a mistake.
false dichotomy.
There's too little and too much (which is what we're arguing about) there needs to be some balance of challenge (risk vs reward) and overcoming it wether its deliberately taking risks or doing it safely by outscaling; that feels good to fans of any given game genre or sub genre. Some games are harder and more punishing some are less so. Its a spectrum not an either or. A series of choices that are either fun and compelling because they aren't trivial (can punish you) or they are light weight choices that mostly don't matter and success is handed out for simply showing up. This IMO is what you get with "too little punishment".
D4 as a great example. No important choices, punishments for failure are next to non-existant. This makes D4 a bad game. Too little consequence for bad choices = bad game. Too much can also be bad, playing HC can be too much potential for punishment so I don't do it. But an XP penalty? Thats avoidable via farming AKA playing the game correctly.
If you're constantly feeling weak and dying in a ARPG its because you're failing to attain the win condition of the game. Its feedback thats supposed to tell you to play better. Not complain that your bad play resulted in punishment.
I mean, I've never complained about the xp penalty. I personally think it's fine as is and is a very fair way for the game to give the player the feedback of "improve your build to do this content." My complaint is about pinnacle content.
If a boss takes dozens of hours to unlock (citadels) a single attempt at, that means you MUST be able to one shot it or you're a fool to even attempt it. That means the game has to be easier than it could be. I want the game to be more mechanically challenging, with more risk of dying, but that's not compatible with the current "one shot everything or you're playing wrong" design.
Let's say I can do t7 maps comfortably and die so infrequently that they're boring. I get lucky and a t13 map drops. I'd be an idiot to even attempt it since it's just going to brick the map+any mechanics on the atlas. Okay, even that's not too too bad, I can live with that - but it does force you to always be grinding easy, efficient content which is pretty boring in a game that sells itself on being challenging. Pinnacle bosses being "one shot it or never attempt it" just completely removes the players ability to attempt aspirational content without them "playing wrong."
|
Posted byRivance#3976on Jan 4, 2025, 2:38:20 PM
|
"
Its not about gear or anything its about respecting peoples time when grinding in the game at endgame. i myself have a very good gear but as an example i once died because of a stupid bug where your left click wont work and mobs swarmed and killed me. now after that i got -10% xp where i achieved atlease about an hour grinding t15+ maps at level 95. if they really dont want to remove the penalty im fine with it but keep in mind that the game is in early access state where it has several bugs and flaws and i think they should atlease remove or tweak it and later on add it into the full release where the game is actually polished and you dont die to some BS you have no controll over.
Things should not be changed or taken out "because it's early access" and added back in later. Even the current reduced price for respeccing needs to be added back in soon or it will be a shitshow when they increase it again.
Also 99% of people whining about the XP penalty are just angry at something else and are just lashing out at it instead of the real issues, like bugs or poor balance.
Last edited by Kashou#2868 on Jan 4, 2025, 3:11:07 PM
|
Posted byKashou#2868on Jan 4, 2025, 3:10:15 PM
|
|
Imagine the feeling when you take all the time to setup your towers with all your nice shiny Tablets and you setup a nice Breach + Corrupted + Irradiated And finally hit a Savannah with 10 breaches and you're so excited then you die in an instant wondering wtf killed you and your 10 breach savannah you have been hunting for so long is just gone in the blink of an eye. It's not just the XP but a multitude of unforgiving factors that totally Shit on the player.
|
Posted byTRYLLTV#2466on Jan 4, 2025, 3:14:54 PM
|
"
Imagine the feeling when you take all the time to setup your towers with all your nice shiny Tablets and you setup a nice Breach + Corrupted + Irradiated And finally hit a Savannah with 10 breaches and you're so excited then you die in an instant wondering wtf killed you and your 10 breach savannah you have been hunting for so long is just gone in the blink of an eye. It's not just the XP but a multitude of unforgiving factors that totally Shit on the player.
Almost like you have to measure how much you can juice a map without dying. Its a risk vs reward system.
|
Posted byMEITTI#3999on Jan 4, 2025, 3:17:20 PM
|
|
Sorry, what is body brigade ?
|
Posted byVinsdvalh#0247on Jan 4, 2025, 3:19:48 PM
|
"
If you're butting up against the XP penalty a lot: its because you're not playing the ARPG correctly. You're intentionally losing; Stop that. You'll enjoy the game a lot more if you stop intentionally losing.
Your instinct as a gamer playing a hack and slash ARPG when you die to often should be to go back to a previous or optional zone and farm a bit. Get some upgrades, maybe a level. Why do you think you're supposed to just steamroll ahead until the last boss dies or you reach a leveling equalibrium because you lose XP throwing your face at it faster than you gain XP? Thats not the intent of the game or genre.
Playing well in an ARPG mostly means killing things for loot until you're powerful and not dying. Unlike a souls game or a platformer or a strategy game, here the entire goal of the game is to outscale the content with a powerful character. NOT puzzle solving acumen, 4d chess, thinking 20 moves ahead, not precise flinch jumping skills at the pixel edge of a platform and not pattern recognition of what moves the enemy always does on repeat. (though ofc POE2 is weaving a bit of this in, again though its still mostly outscalable as it should be using the ARPG gameplay loop)
Imagine this mindset in a strategy game: I'll just keep using the same tactic and hope for a different result via some RNG; sounds like the definition of insanity right? Its sure as hell not gaming.
I know this seems obvious to some but the amount of complaining about XP penalty suggests that a LOT OF PEOPLE CLEARLY NEED TO HEAR IT.
Stop losing intentionally.
They are probably too young to have played D2 LOD where you lose 20 or 25 percent XP out of nowhere.
I am not sure if you realized it, IRL, people who are complaining and screaming about some real life issues are typically a non issue for some of us back in the 90s and 2000s.
Although some issues are well founded to be honest, losing XP and complaining about the lack of way stones are not one of those.
Imagine pissing on the Starbucks server because the other Starbucks chain you visit regularly down the road always gives you 3 cookies with your coffee but the one that you visited out of town only gives you 2 cookies and a small brownie.
This is exactly the situation now.
Rampage IGN : Cool_Hamster
Standard IGN : Hamsterbaby
Standard IGN : HamsterMfer
Please do not hesitate to contact me in game if you have posted or offered on my items.
Regards
|
Posted bychosk80#3649on Jan 4, 2025, 3:19:49 PM
|
|
That is clearly what they want
|
Posted byWormabutter#4288on Jan 4, 2025, 3:20:27 PM
|
"
"
Its not about gear or anything its about respecting peoples time when grinding in the game at endgame. i myself have a very good gear but as an example i once died because of a stupid bug where your left click wont work and mobs swarmed and killed me. now after that i got -10% xp where i achieved atlease about an hour grinding t15+ maps at level 95. if they really dont want to remove the penalty im fine with it but keep in mind that the game is in early access state where it has several bugs and flaws and i think they should atlease remove or tweak it and later on add it into the full release where the game is actually polished and you dont die to some BS you have no controll over.
"Respecting people's time" is the most bullshit phrase I think I've ever heard.
This is a game, either you find the playstyle enjoyable or not. If you don't, then you don't play it.
You choose what to do with your time, so the only person that isn't respecting it is you.
you're in the early access feedback forum and bitching someone is giving feedback, yep poe vets want this game to die
|
Posted bytoxiitea#5772on Jan 4, 2025, 3:22:07 PM
|
"
"
"
Its not about gear or anything its about respecting peoples time when grinding in the game at endgame. i myself have a very good gear but as an example i once died because of a stupid bug where your left click wont work and mobs swarmed and killed me. now after that i got -10% xp where i achieved atlease about an hour grinding t15+ maps at level 95. if they really dont want to remove the penalty im fine with it but keep in mind that the game is in early access state where it has several bugs and flaws and i think they should atlease remove or tweak it and later on add it into the full release where the game is actually polished and you dont die to some BS you have no controll over.
"Respecting people's time" is the most bullshit phrase I think I've ever heard.
This is a game, either you find the playstyle enjoyable or not. If you don't, then you don't play it.
You choose what to do with your time, so the only person that isn't respecting it is you.
you're in the early access feedback forum and bitching someone is giving feedback, yep poe vets want this game to die
thats not feedback thats crying. feedback is talking about a topic, pro's con's and some possible solutions. but this is "i dont like it im the princess literally crying"
|
Posted byPl4t1numX#4325on Jan 4, 2025, 3:26:53 PM
|
"
If you're butting up against the XP penalty a lot: its because you're not playing the ARPG correctly.
Good God, this sentence only invalidates the whole rest of your post. I play as I want, period.
|
Posted byRasorwind02#4920on Jan 4, 2025, 3:28:24 PM
|
