Floored by the power spike of TRADING. This will ruin the game.

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crazyfingers619#3901 wrote:

[...]

It doesn't. It does the opposite, and many of us have detailed how in a multitude of ways throughout this thread.

[...]

Rofl.

"

crazyfingers619#3901 wrote:

"

Werdx_1#3669 wrote:

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BulawOwRealOne#5430 wrote:

You know SSF exists ?

He is not interested in that.

He is interested in ruining whole game for every other player.

You're the spoiled child that wants to eat cake for every meal with potato chips.

Life is better if you find the healthy balance between grind and reward.

"

Because there's no argument. You're already wrong. Objectively.

Trade was just as powerful in PoE1. It has been a fundamental element of the endgame and appeal of the franchise since 2013. Trade is what makes PoE's endgame formula work, because it means the time you put in has actual value attached to it. Clearing the pinnacle boss means something even if the drops are useless for you, because they have a currency value that you can get for them from someone else. Everything you do, is beneficial to you in one form or another. Its a self-contained economy that rewards you for playing but doesn't bring RMT into the mix. Its what keeps people engaged with the game beyond clearing the content. Nevermind that it DIRECTLY enables build diversity by giving ease of access to many items that you'd otherwise be forced to focus farm for.

And hey, if you don't want to have to deal with that aspect? SSF is there to quite literally solve all of your problems. No trade, separate leaderboards from the leagues with trade so that trade isn't giving any of your competition an unfair advantage.

You're quite literally minging that a system exists that is a TITANIC proponent of why a massive, massive number of people actually play this game, because YOU PERSONALLY don't like it. Go play SSF, and leave the rest of us to our economy endgame.

I'm willing to bet the OP knows this and that they're totally out of touch with the PoE fan base on this but will just keep rolling in shit because that's what they've chosen to do with their time. There's no point in arguing with people committed to bad faith positions because they don't even believe what they're saying. Let this guy go try to get someone else to take them seriously and fail, again. Maybe they'll get tired of it eventually, or not. Who cares?

"

There could be alternative paths to power that involve playing the game.

Arguing trade is the ONLY solution here is a narrow view of the issue.

Why does trading have to be the solution? Why does everything have to be deterministic?

Didn't say its the only solution. But its integral to why people play PoE, whether YOU like it or not.

"

It is inherently unfun to simply scale damage mindlessly, resists, and damage output in a linear fashion based on market costs.

It rewards the absolute most boring play style: Sitting in a trade window, OR WORSE YET! Automating the entire process with scripts.

YUCK! An entire game distilled to one boring transaction that could be automated by basic script logic to quickly asses an items value, sell low and buy high.

The system is ripe for exploitation, and that exploitation seeps out and destroys the experience that could have been.

Entirely subjective.

"

You guys gloss over all the depth of this conversation, use straw men, and assert that Trade is somehow this deep and enriching element that adds so much depth and longevity to the end game.

It doesn't. It does the opposite, and many of us have detailed how in a multitude of ways throughout this thread.

No, actually you have not. At all. You've minged about how a system that literal millions of people engage with the game seasonally love, exists, and that is a personal problem for you because it isn't the kind of game YOU want to play. So YOU want YOUR version of the game to be what WE'RE forced to play.

"

It inherently breaks the rules of progression upon which form the foundational trust that the game will be fun.

If it isn't fun for you, then that's probably a good sign the game is not meant for you. Again, millions of people. $130+ million, overwhelming majority of which is pure cash as of 2023 which means they're probably worth MASSIVELY more now after how successful the game has been this year too.

"

The moment you incentivize giving overpowered loot to lower power players through currency exchanges, you crush all that hard fought balance and extended progression that took so many man hours to balance and create.

PoE is not a game of "hard fought balance". It never has been and it never will be. Its a game designed to be broken. Its a game designed for the power fantasy to be that you figure out how to game the system and succeed. Its built around the idea of free trade enabling absurd feats of builds that otherwise would take untold thousands of hours for a single person to actually enable themselves due to RNG. Its just as much a power sandbox as it is an ARPG, and trade is an integral element of faciliating that end.

Again and again, your only argument is "-I- would personally prefer if it was a different way", yet you masquerade it as "It would be objectively better if it was a different way". Your opinions and preferences are not objective reality. It is painfully apparent to anyone with eyes that what GGG has done and continues to do, is working for them in an extraordinary way. The playerbase of PoE clearly enjoys it in a majority sense, and they have ZERO reason to go uplifting their entire system and structure just because a small subset of people like you want the game to be something it isn't designed to be.

I'm honestly not convinced you aren't just trolling, since a cursory glance at your profile reveals you have 26 characters from over the years, the vast majority of which are in the mid-to-late 90s. You clearly have been playing for some time, and should have a full understanding of why people enjoy and continue to engage with PoE as it has always and will continue to exist.

If you aren't, I don't know what possessed you to think that GGG would just abandon the structure that has worked for them for over a decade in PoE1 for 2, but my response will ALWAYS remain the same no matter how much opinion you spew at us stated as fact:

Play SSF, or go away. Trade works and we like it. It isn't getting removed no matter how much you shout.

What do you picture the for gameplay lol that you feel trade is breaking BTW?

Isn't it petty much: kill stuff -> get loot -> [X] -> power increases?

I have a hard time seeing a functional difference between crafting your gear as step X or trading.

It also really only has such a static impact for the campaign when you can buy 1Ex gear. I'm endgame which is like 90% of the game you've still got to grind for upgrades. The cheapest upgrade I'm looking at currently is like 100Ex and climbing.

Or maybe another question, how long do you think it should take to get to and defeat end game bosses in your desired vision of the game?

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KaosuRyoko#1633 wrote:

To a pervious point,trade GREATLY increases the longevity of my fun. Every time I tried a season in PoE1 without trading I bounced off of it after a week and never had the feeling that loot buffs would change that for me. I spend like half my time or more each league playing the market because I absolutely love it (used to be a market manipulator in WoW as well).
I don't really want to grind for 200 hours every single league for one rng gated drop for a single build. I want to be able to get to endgame and enjoy that grind and have time to play multiple builds to end game each league. Even a drop multiplier in a no trade environment is still rng gated. Trade means I have a consistent reliable path to grow my power, without trade I'm just hoping I got the exact affixes or unique for my build, and getting a huge rare drop that's not for my class almost feels worse than not getting a drop at all tbh.

Pretty hilarious watching you not be able to comprehend that different people can have fun in different ways and trying to tell them they're wrong for what they enjoy.

That said I still appreciate the idea of a drop buffed no-transfer SSF option for people that want that. But over a decade into this game paradigm it still doesn't exist, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

That is such a backwards take. You are actually making the OPs point for him. If you dont trade you are completely stuck because the game is balanced around trade. The idea is that you should be able to progress without trading.

That shutting down all trade and not compensate with loot or crafting boosts is a bad idea is obvious and no one has suggested anything of the sort.

"

Silverpelt#6095 wrote:

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crazyfingers619#3901 wrote:

[...]

It doesn't. It does the opposite, and many of us have detailed how in a multitude of ways throughout this thread.

[...]

Rofl.

Ok, I'll play devil's advocate for you guys since no one here seems to want to actually discuss this issue.

There is a distinct difference in loot in POE 1 and 2, that being the difference with the gem system.

Trade in POE 1 was more necessary because the gem link system was so key to power, and during a league, these random items added a huge bit of diversity to the system.

Mastering the game involved understanding of what gem links were potent, and this fed into a deeper mastery of a complex trade system that offered not just resists and crit rates and such, but a system where players had to understand how the gem setups would feed into their build.

It was more nuanced and interesting.

POE 2 does not have these complex item mechanics, and as such, the Trade system becomes a much more linear and simplistic upgrade mechanic that does not invite theory crafting, but instead mindless upgrading.

I would still argue that unrestricted trade STILL diminishes the game experience, instead of relying on your and a small group of friend's resources to piece your item set together, you are engaging with hundreds of thousands of power users finding 500 rares a day who are nickle and diming their way to better items.

It simply doesn't elevate the game, the trade system in its current form is a perversion of the path to power and the joy of finding items and using those items to barter for more power.

At its best, a trade system is a reskinning of the joy of randomized loot.

You have a small subset of players, they have some items you may or may not want, but there are gaps in the availability of items, you have to make due with the limited economy.

If Trade is only exciting at the start of a league, then you are limiting the enjoyment of a game to a small fraction of its lifespan.

I know no one here wants a discussion on the other side, they just want to mock and jeer, but if you're not going to create a discourse, i'll do my best in your stead, because this is IMO the biggest issue that threatens the long term health of this game.

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Sickness#1007 wrote:

"

KaosuRyoko#1633 wrote:

To a pervious point,trade GREATLY increases the longevity of my fun. Every time I tried a season in PoE1 without trading I bounced off of it after a week and never had the feeling that loot buffs would change that for me. I spend like half my time or more each league playing the market because I absolutely love it (used to be a market manipulator in WoW as well).
I don't really want to grind for 200 hours every single league for one rng gated drop for a single build. I want to be able to get to endgame and enjoy that grind and have time to play multiple builds to end game each league. Even a drop multiplier in a no trade environment is still rng gated. Trade means I have a consistent reliable path to grow my power, without trade I'm just hoping I got the exact affixes or unique for my build, and getting a huge rare drop that's not for my class almost feels worse than not getting a drop at all tbh.

Pretty hilarious watching you not be able to comprehend that different people can have fun in different ways and trying to tell them they're wrong for what they enjoy.

That said I still appreciate the idea of a drop buffed no-transfer SSF option for people that want that. But over a decade into this game paradigm it still doesn't exist, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

That is such a backwards take. You are actually making the OPs point for him. If you dont trade you are completely stuck because the game is balanced around trade. The idea is that you should be able to progress without trading.

That shutting down all trade and not compensate with loot or crafting boosts is a bad idea is obvious and no one has suggested anything of the sort.

As others have pointed out, SSF exists and lots of people play it and succeed, so trade is not at all strictly necessary if that's not your play style. I personally enjoy engaging in trade but nothing prevents me from doing every single thing in the game without it. I was never "stuck" I just want engaged in that solo grind style and after playing other single plate ARPGs I had the same issue. I just love trade.

.

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KaosuRyoko#1633 wrote:

What do you picture the for gameplay lol that you feel trade is breaking BTW?

Isn't it petty much: kill stuff -> get loot -> [X] -> power increases?

I have a hard time seeing a functional difference between crafting your gear as step X or trading.

Not OP but I think there's a massive functional difference between finding loot on your own or by getting it handed down to you for a bit of currency.

Take an exalted orb as an example. You can either use it on your best piece of gear hoping for a relevant 5th or even 6th affix OR you can buy a full item that's 20-100x as good.

That turns your gameplay loop into something akin to work, you grind for pennies until you can buy something cool. I'd rather grind for the cool stuff directly.

I mostly have a problem with this pay to win feature where trade allows you to skip multiple tiers of content.

"

crazyfingers619#3901 wrote:

The problem that GGG is trying to address with POE 2 is a vocal player base accustomed to easy mode mechanics that wants an easy mode button.

No one is arguing against my point that trade isn't a horrible power spike that destroys the game loop.

You all just want your easy mode button that ruins the experience.

What's your damn problem? Some players like it easy and want to feel overpowered - for them, trade is perfect. Others want to feel the achievement of overcoming everything by themeselfes. For them, there is solo-self-found. Everyone is happy. So why even make this thread?