Floored by the power spike of TRADING. This will ruin the game.

"

LineArck#6395 wrote:

[...]

There is still something to take out from these feedback, one of GGG intention was to make ground loot feel good, to do so these implemented tiering and removed crafting. And well it din't hit the mark at all.

I agree, but I think the "smart loot" we were promised had one too many drinks during the parties at GGG's office.

I'm laughing at the thread because there's a SSF mode, people keep telling him to play that, and he keeps ignoring these people and tries to convince us we shouldn't enjoy trade league.


When I played Diablo 4 last May, the D4 forum was full of non-sense threads like this one. I suspect some of the trolls from over there migrated to the POE forum.

"

crazyfingers619#3901 wrote:

The problem that GGG is trying to address with POE 2 is a vocal player base accustomed to easy mode mechanics that wants an easy mode button.

No one is arguing against my point that trade isn't a horrible power spike that destroys the game loop.

You all just want your easy mode button that ruins the experience.

Because there's no argument. You're already wrong. Objectively.

Trade was just as powerful in PoE1. It has been a fundamental element of the endgame and appeal of the franchise since 2013. Trade is what makes PoE's endgame formula work, because it means the time you put in has actual value attached to it. Clearing the pinnacle boss means something even if the drops are useless for you, because they have a currency value that you can get for them from someone else. Everything you do, is beneficial to you in one form or another. Its a self-contained economy that rewards you for playing but doesn't bring RMT into the mix. Its what keeps people engaged with the game beyond clearing the content. Nevermind that it DIRECTLY enables build diversity by giving ease of access to many items that you'd otherwise be forced to focus farm for.

And hey, if you don't want to have to deal with that aspect? SSF is there to quite literally solve all of your problems. No trade, separate leaderboards from the leagues with trade so that trade isn't giving any of your competition an unfair advantage.

You're quite literally minging that a system exists that is a TITANIC proponent of why a massive, massive number of people actually play this game, because YOU PERSONALLY don't like it. Go play SSF, and leave the rest of us to our economy endgame.

"

KaosuRyoko#1633 wrote:

To a pervious point,trade GREATLY increases the longevity of my fun. Every time I tried a season in PoE1 without trading I bounced off of it after a week and never had the feeling that loot buffs would change that for me. I spend like half my time or more each league playing the market because I absolutely love it (used to be a market manipulator in WoW as well).
I don't really want to grind for 200 hours every single league for one rng gated drop for a single build. I want to be able to get to endgame and enjoy that grind and have time to play multiple builds to end game each league. Even a drop multiplier in a no trade environment is still rng gated. Trade means I have a consistent reliable path to grow my power, without trade I'm just hoping I got the exact affixes or unique for my build, and getting a huge rare drop that's not for my class almost feels worse than not getting a drop at all tbh.

Pretty hilarious watching you not be able to comprehend that different people can have fun in different ways and trying to tell them they're wrong for what they enjoy.

That said I still appreciate the idea of a drop buffed no-transfer SSF option for people that want that. But over a decade into this game paradigm it still doesn't exist, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

You do realize that by its very nature those who enjoy being a "market manipulator" must be in the extreme minority?

Do you understand that your enjoyment of the game as someone who manipulates the market negatively affects everyone else by its nature as well?

Genuine question: Why should GGG cater to small subsets of players who do not enjoy the core game to its full extent and whose influence on the game diminishes the overall enjoyment of others?

Bigger question: Have you seen any old school Diablo fans trying POE for the first time falling in love with trade? Do you see anyone expressing joy at sitting in an excel sheet and taking away the path to power from actually playing the game?

"

crazyfingers619#3901 wrote:

[..]

Genuine question: Why should GGG cater to small subset of players who do not enjoy the core game to its full extent and whose enjoyment of the game makes everyone else's less?

That's one hell of a troll. Nobody forces people to play in the mode that allows Trading, and yet it's the league/game mode that caters the majority of players.


If you remove trade from the "Standard" aka trade league(s), it effectively becomes a Solo Self Found mode. A game mode that is already in game.


What's your argument here exactly other than trolling people?

"

crazyfingers619#3901 wrote:

"

KaosuRyoko#1633 wrote:

To a pervious point,trade GREATLY increases the longevity of my fun. Every time I tried a season in PoE1 without trading I bounced off of it after a week and never had the feeling that loot buffs would change that for me. I spend like half my time or more each league playing the market because I absolutely love it (used to be a market manipulator in WoW as well).
I don't really want to grind for 200 hours every single league for one rng gated drop for a single build. I want to be able to get to endgame and enjoy that grind and have time to play multiple builds to end game each league. Even a drop multiplier in a no trade environment is still rng gated. Trade means I have a consistent reliable path to grow my power, without trade I'm just hoping I got the exact affixes or unique for my build, and getting a huge rare drop that's not for my class almost feels worse than not getting a drop at all tbh.

Pretty hilarious watching you not be able to comprehend that different people can have fun in different ways and trying to tell them they're wrong for what they enjoy.

That said I still appreciate the idea of a drop buffed no-transfer SSF option for people that want that. But over a decade into this game paradigm it still doesn't exist, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

You do realize that by its very nature those who enjoy being a "market manipulator" must be in the extreme minority?

Do you understand that your enjoyment of the game as someone who manipulates the market negatively affects everyone else by its nature as well?

Genuine question: Why should GGG cater to small subset of players who do not enjoy the core game to its full extent and whose enjoyment of the game makes everyone else's less?

I guess we'll let the multi-millions of people who return to the game every season and have for 11 years, who have financially supported it to the point of GGG having a net worth of over $130 million that they're actually a small subset of players.

Bugger off mate lmao. You're not the majority, you're a tiny, loud minority. If you weren't, the game would not just be surviving, but thriving more than 90% of other games that EXIST across the entire industry, for over a decade. Same kind of people who minge about the fact trading exists in Warframe, yet in that game too, it has mysteriously only benefited the game and caused it to continue to grow for over a decade.

You can scream to the high heavens all you want. You're wrong. Again, go play SSF and leave the overwhelming majority of the rest of us be. Trading is never going anywhere, period, no exceptions. If you don't like that, play SSF or leave the game because its clearly not for you.

"

crazyfingers619#3901 wrote:

I was expecting a big power spike from trade, but GOOD LORD, the game just breaks into easy mode and progression becomes COMMPLETELY predictable and stale. You can get a full kit in about 40 minutes that will outperform anything you can get in game from drops by a huge margin by tweaking and tuning the search settings.

Feels like cheating, yeah. I'd rather play SSF but loot rate is made for trade, so that's only really an option if you have infinite time.

"

AdeptusEnginus#0665 wrote:

"

crazyfingers619#3901 wrote:

The problem that GGG is trying to address with POE 2 is a vocal player base accustomed to easy mode mechanics that wants an easy mode button.

No one is arguing against my point that trade isn't a horrible power spike that destroys the game loop.

You all just want your easy mode button that ruins the experience.

Because there's no argument. You're already wrong. Objectively.

Trade was just as powerful in PoE1. It has been a fundamental element of the endgame and appeal of the franchise since 2013. Trade is what makes PoE's endgame formula work, because it means the time you put in has actual value attached to it. Clearing the pinnacle boss means something even if the drops are useless for you, because they have a currency value that you can get for them from someone else. Everything you do, is beneficial to you in one form or another. Its a self-contained economy that rewards you for playing but doesn't bring RMT into the mix. Its what keeps people engaged with the game beyond clearing the content. Nevermind that it DIRECTLY enables build diversity by giving ease of access to many items that you'd otherwise be forced to focus farm for.

And hey, if you don't want to have to deal with that aspect? SSF is there to quite literally solve all of your problems. No trade, separate leaderboards from the leagues with trade so that trade isn't giving any of your competition an unfair advantage.

You're quite literally minging that a system exists that is a TITANIC proponent of why a massive, massive number of people actually play this game, because YOU PERSONALLY don't like it. Go play SSF, and leave the rest of us to our economy endgame.

There could be alternative paths to power that involve playing the game.

Arguing trade is the ONLY solution here is a narrow view of the issue.

Why does trading have to be the solution? Why does everything have to be deterministic?

As it stands between trade and crafting, there is no magic to power progression. No crazy unique modifiers that make you think outside the box.

It is inherently unfun to simply scale damage mindlessly, resists, and damage output in a linear fashion based on market costs.

It rewards the absolute most boring play style: Sitting in a trade window, OR WORSE YET! Automating the entire process with scripts.

YUCK! An entire game distilled to one boring transaction that could be automated by basic script logic to quickly asses an items value, sell low and buy high.

The system is ripe for exploitation, and that exploitation seeps out and destroys the experience that could have been.

You guys gloss over all the depth of this conversation, use straw men, and assert that Trade is somehow this deep and enriching element that adds so much depth and longevity to the end game.

It doesn't. It does the opposite, and many of us have detailed how in a multitude of ways throughout this thread.

It inherently breaks the rules of progression upon which form the foundational trust that the game will be fun.

The moment you incentivize giving overpowered loot to lower power players through currency exchanges, you crush all that hard fought balance and extended progression that took so many man hours to balance and create.

"

crazyfingers619#3901 wrote:

There are a lot of replies here by people with very narrow views who do not want to even entertain the larger impact of these systems on the broader audiences enjoyment of the game.

So all of you are aware that trade severely impacts the balance?

You are aware that with trade you WILL be forced to open a trade window and sit there and sell and buy wares, and that at least 9/10 of your items will be obtained from a spreadsheet?

You're perfectly ok with the fact that it becomes more rewarding to buy low and sell high than it is to actually use those items you've found and play the game?

Genuinely curious. You guys ENJOY this game turning into a spreadsheet simulator for a simple economy system with next to no complexity?

it really looks like youve JUST discovered trade and its impact on poe and just cant reconcile the fact that trade is one of foundational pillars of poe


whats next, you gonna pick up EVE online and find out its all about economy too ?

ggg loves trading, plain and simple. and with that many people in the game, yep it s gonna be super cheap

"

AdeptusEnginus#0665 wrote:

I guess we'll let the multi-millions of people who return to the game every season and have for 11 years, who have financially supported it to the point of GGG having a net worth of over $130 million that they're actually a small subset of players.

Bugger off mate lmao. You're not the majority, you're a tiny, loud minority. If you weren't, the game would not just be surviving, but thriving more than 90% of other games that EXIST across the entire industry, for over a decade. Same kind of people who minge about the fact trading exists in Warframe, yet in that game too, it has mysteriously only benefited the game and caused it to continue to grow for over a decade.

You can scream to the high heavens all you want. You're wrong. Again, go play SSF and leave the overwhelming majority of the rest of us be. Trading is never going anywhere, period, no exceptions. If you don't like that, play SSF or leave the game because its clearly not for you.

I have never seen such an entitled and big headed community for a video game.

You guys really gotta work on your communication skills, acting so bull headed and petty is not a winning model for discourse.

I suppose its just a small subset who come here and engage in this behavior with the same threats of reserving their money and asserting absolute knowledge of what is fun and not fun, and it just so happens to be exactly what the broken experience of POE 1 is. The rest are enjoying the game.

I can see why GGG wanted to make POE 2. They were shackled by this player base.

I don't think anyone thinks that there isn't an audience and a player base or that what you want isn't necessarily something bad per say.

But it exists. And you guys have done a fantastic job of gatekeeping and insulating that experience.

You won!

Go enjoy it. It's called POE 1.