To much loot after the recent patch. EDITED: Updated with streamer video on this topic.

"

eldheim#2436 wrote:

...
There should be some middle ground. Not just sloshing through one step forward than three steps back while white mobs soak up 50 bolts each.
...

Middle ground: a loot filter should not have any reason to hide items from view until/unless you are running juiced endgame content. using a filter to highlight and emphasize certain drops like rare currency is perfectly fine, but there should not be any pressure on the filter to hide items throughout the entire campaign, nor in ordinary alch-and-go equivalent mapping.

The POE1 thing where you kill Merveil at the end of Act 1 and she drops two hundred items, of which you see all of four? Absolutely not.

The thing people in this thread want, where every random rare in Act 2 drops 50+ items of which you filter out maybe two to actually pick up? Toxic, awful, and game-destroying.

The other middle ground: let the game exist for more than three days before demanding GGG abandon literally every principle and desire that guided its development, and which yielded them over a million pre-order key sales for their half-complete game, and turn the new game into nothing but an absolutely godawful rehash of a game nobody except the turbo-est of turbosweats can ever actually get anywhere in.

"

1453R#7804 wrote:

"

eldheim#2436 wrote:

...
There should be some middle ground. Not just sloshing through one step forward than three steps back while white mobs soak up 50 bolts each.
...

Middle ground: a loot filter should not have any reason to hide items from view until/unless you are running juiced endgame content. using a filter to highlight and emphasize certain drops like rare currency is perfectly fine, but there should not be any pressure on the filter to hide items throughout the entire campaign, nor in ordinary alch-and-go equivalent mapping.

The POE1 thing where you kill Merveil at the end of Act 1 and she drops two hundred items, of which you see all of four? Absolutely not.

The thing people in this thread want, where every random rare in Act 2 drops 50+ items of which you filter out maybe two to actually pick up? Toxic, awful, and game-destroying.

The other middle ground: let the game exist for more than three days before demanding GGG abandon literally every principle and desire that guided its development, and which yielded them over a million pre-order key sales for their half-complete game, and turn the new game into nothing but an absolutely godawful rehash of a game nobody except the turbo-est of turbosweats can ever actually get anywhere in.

What a marvelous exercise of hyperbole.
Your middle ground suggestions instantly going into over the top gratuitous examples that are not, in fact, middle ground at all.

Where are "every person in this thread" asking for 50+ items off every random rare in act two?
You made them up, didn't you?

Where is the ACTUAL middle ground?
25 hours into the game, and I have accrued about 10 regal orbs, zero alchs, two chaos orbs, one exalt, and maybe 60-70 augments/transmutes.
I spend the gold respecc'ing a useless passive tree, having to reach movement speed since I couldn't find boots with any on it. Yes, I checked vendors. Every level up.
My map looks like this:
-pull a small group of mobs, backtracking, retracking, pulling another group, then backtracking again. When there is an aggressive rare mob I can end up backtracking quite far to not risk pulling other mobs.

I'm not a bad player, I'm not using wrong skills, I have thousands of hours into both POE and theorycrafting, and souls games all done and dusted.
I hardly ever die.

I just don't have any FUN.

Not sure why that is so difficult to grasp without going into these extreme diatribes about how shitty I want to make the game because it would be nice to do ANY content during a full day of playing.

Go check out what the streamers are doing!
They instantly found the zoom zoom delete screen builds, and whoopsie they are all doing meteors or minion builds, or cheesing bossed with warrior builds.

Are they dodgerolling around praising the slow or lack of progress and no drops?
No, of course not.

"

eldheim#2436 wrote:

Where is the ACTUAL middle ground?

you missed where I actually proposed the middle ground be - loot such that there's no need to hide items in the filters. If you're generating enough loot that some of it needs to be hidden, the game is generating too much loot. the only reason to ever hide items is if you're doing uberjuiced endgame nonsense. At no point should you ever need to hide items in the campaign, nor should you need to in typical alch-and-go basic endgame.

Use a filter to highlight higher-value loot? Sure, absolutely. Use it to cull the fifty items you know are worthless that you insist the game drop anyways? Absolutely not.

"

eldheim#2436 wrote:

My map looks like this:
-pull a small group of mobs, backtracking, retracking, pulling another group, then backtracking again. When there is an aggressive rare mob I can end up backtracking quite far to not risk pulling other mobs.

I'm not a bad player, I'm not using wrong skills, I have thousands of hours into both POE and theorycrafting, and souls games all done and dusted.
I hardly ever die.

I just don't have any FUN.

Here's how my basic encounters go, running a Pathfinder with now-nerfed crossbow skills and a terrible bombard crossbow whose best mod is ~22% increased phys damage:

1.) See pack, initiate Operation War Crimes.
2.) fire Oil Grenade into pack. Oil grenades explode, slowing enemies by ~70% due to Encumbrance and Maim Supports.
3.) if pack is large/threatening, fire Flash Grenade into pack. if not, proceed to Step 4.
4.) Fire Gas Grenades into pack. Gas grenades trigger, Poisoning and Corroding enemies while building up damage in Plaguebearer. Repeat once or twice depending on size, girth, and rarity level of pack, and how much I want to let the gas cook to build up Plaguebearer damage.
5.) Fire Explosive Grenades into pack, if the extra damage feels warranted. Which it likely will, when I can finally play again and see how bad my Gas Kabumen damage is. If pack includes rares or a boss, prioritize Explosive Grenades over Gas because Execution Support is fire against thiccy bois.
6.) Trigger War Crimes with Explosive Bolt, detonating everything at once in a giant burst of rippling explosions of flame, murder and death.
7.) Mop up with an extra Explosive Bolt shot, some Basic Bolts, or a round of Explosive Grenades if any stragglers survive the Vietnam Special.

Total time to kill most packs: ~15-25 seconds depending on pack composition and precise order of skill usage.

Threat most packs pose if I use my skills correctly: 0%. They're too busy being slowed, stunned, flinched, poisoned, burned, Exposed, exploded, and dead to threaten me, and with Running Assault and ~20% movespeed from both tree and boots combined I move too quickly for them to catch when they're mired in oil and zotzed from Flash Grenades.

No meteors. No minions. No triggers. No cheese. Just a coherent game plan and the will to see it through.

"

eldheim#2436 wrote:

Not sure why that is so difficult to grasp without going into these extreme diatribes about how shitty I want to make the game because it would be nice to do ANY content during a full day of playing.

Because if folks like you get what you want and the game becomes choked with so much loot you need to filter eighty percent of it out, the game will lose something forever that we can never get back. I like rares feeling like they matter and being excited to see one, hoping for an upgrade. You don't ever get that feeling in PoE1 anymore, the game drops thousands of rares even in the earliest campaign instances. To the point where the overwhelming majority of them are just ignored and left where they sit.

A player should be wanting to pick up every single rare that drops during the first three acts of the game. ideally you'd want to pick up all the rares period, but I acknowledge that in endgame the juicing strats will likely create more loot than people want to deal with. But at no point should rares on the ground be considered an annoying, superfluous afterthought.

"

eldheim#2436 wrote:

Go check out what the streamers are doing!
They instantly found the zoom zoom delete screen builds, and whoopsie they are all doing meteors or minion builds, or cheesing bossed with warrior builds.

Are they dodgerolling around praising the slow or lack of progress and no drops?
No, of course not.

Gee, I wonder if that means the game is not, in fact, cripplingly slow and unplayable after all so long as you know what you're doing. Streamer Memers can manage to blast, so can you.

This is why i hate this community. Never satisfied with anything

"

kickaxe88#3563 wrote:

This is why i hate this community. Never satisfied with anything

to be honest I suspect some people are just trolls and like to watch others suffer. I wouldn't take the back and forth with much salt, its usually easy to spot the trolls most of them have no badges under their name and are always contradicting feedback. Or making counter threads against the normal point of view. its all about riling people up.

"

Suslikwishmaker#1073 wrote:

"

kickaxe88#3563 wrote:

This is why i hate this community. Never satisfied with anything

to be honest I suspect some people are just trolls and like to watch others suffer. I wouldn't take the back and forth with much salt, its usually easy to spot the trolls most of them have no badges under their name and are always contradicting feedback. Or making counter threads against the normal point of view. its all about riling people up.

yeah that's kind of what I'm seeing too.

Anyone with no post history, new account, no support are heavily contradicting most of everything that's being posted. People falling for the troll bait.

"

CRUSHEQUITY#5397 wrote:

"I appreciate a slight buff to loot drops.

But think you kind of over did it. The content is way to easy because of it.

Before i am being called an elitist. I am not, i got a few hours to play everyday with a family. I am just a guy that appreciates the challenge and the change from PoE 1 (Which i got over 12k hours in)."


GGG Please read this. Then read it 10 more times.

This is exactly what I was trying to express in my post and this is a much clearer and short concise explanation to my very verbose post lol.

This is the sentiment of most players that work full time jobs and have families ect.

This is your typical "Casual" and high loot drop rates and easy bosses DO NOT HELP cuz game becomes too boring and instead of being immersed into your world like we want for those few precious hours...the mindless button mashing causes our brain to zonk out and thinking about all the nonsense were trying to escape in the first place.

High loot drop rates and easy game play is the Exact OPPOSITE of what casuals want or need. and is actually bad for casuals.

I'm at my fulltime job right now and love loot. Granted, you said "Most players that..." but I know a couple who also have jobs, two who have families with kids, and none of the want less loot. We were all happy about the change.

This perspective part is rough, because I look around and see nothing but people on the same page as me, but obviously you (and mostly likely plenty of friends/etc you have) all think the exact opposite. So...what's better?

My thought process would have been:
- Most casual players don't trade much or at all, so having more SSF-oriented progression usually helps them.
- More loot = more ssf-oriented progression.

Apparently that thought process doesn't track though...I honestly don't know anyone who truely casually plays ARPGs so I'm not going to pretend I do. Even all the aforementioned people w/ families get at least...10-20 hours per week on avg.

People want a fully geared character on day 1. lol

I agree that the drop rates are way too high now. PoE1 frogs that want 10 exalts per boss can go play PoE1 instead. And I'm not joking, I literally got 2 exalts from one boss today. It's out of control right now.

"

Tonst3r#4966 wrote:

I'm at my fulltime job right now and love loot. Granted, you said "Most players that..." but I know a couple who also have jobs, two who have families with kids, and none of the want less loot. We were all happy about the change.

This perspective part is rough, because I look around and see nothing but people on the same page as me, but obviously you (and mostly likely plenty of friends/etc you have) all think the exact opposite. So...what's better?

My thought process would have been:
- Most casual players don't trade much or at all, so having more SSF-oriented progression usually helps them.
- More loot = more ssf-oriented progression.

Apparently that thought process doesn't track though...I honestly don't know anyone who truely casually plays ARPGs so I'm not going to pretend I do. Even all the aforementioned people w/ families get at least...10-20 hours per week on avg.

Loot is kinda like cookies, honestly.

if you get no cookies, or only one cookie every few weeks, you're kinda sad and disappointed because cookies are great and you'd like more cookies.

if you can get a few cookies a day, or a box of your favorite cookies every paycheck, that's awesome. Cookies are great, and your favorite cookies are even better.

If literally everyone you meet hands you twenty pounds of cookies every single time you meet them and you go home at the end of the day with several thousand pounds of cookies you have to deal with, in extremely short order you will never care about cookies again. You will be telling people to stop giving you cookies - quite sternly, I imagine. You will give absolutely zero shits about any cookies except the absolute best possible cookies, because you get so many cookies that it's actively harmful to your health to deal with them all so you just ignore most of them and leave them wherever they land to rot.

'No cookies' is where some folks say POE2 is right now. I'm not sure I agree, but I'm also not sure I disagree. It's rough, and it requires a delicate touch, but there's an argument there.

'A box of your favorite cookies every paycheck and maybe some random office cookies here and there' is where the game should be. You get a really cool upgrade every so often, some other flotsam that's nice but not integral, and you can enjoy your cookies.

"Several tons of cookies every single day, almost all of which get abandoned to rot" is where PoE1 is at right now, and it's absolutely gobshyte awful. The overwhelming majority of all POE1 loot is filtered into invisibility and left to despawn, even at the earliest levels. If you start a new POE1 league and you play all the way to Brutus without a loot filter active, you are actively hurting yourself. This is where most of the people in this thread want POE2 to be, because they've grown used to getting the absolute best possible gourmet supercookies served to them on a platter by their loot filter and see no reason to go to a paradigm of "a box of your favorite cookies every paycheck" when they could have their butler-curated pick of hundreds of thousands of cookies instead.

No matter how absolutely meaningless that makes any of the cookies involved.

It's fine as it is now. It was too low before and if you were unlucky you would get your entire gear from a vendor throughout the campaign. Not much fun in that. Crafting also doesn't play any role until much later in the game.

Beating a boss should be rewarding instead of giving you two white items and a bunch of money.

And you also shouldn't feel like you just wasted all your free time clearing an entire map without getting anything in return.