You Removed the Main Reason People Play ARPGs For. And it's a shame.

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exsea#1724 wrote:

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bachgaman#6713 wrote:

Have you ever actually done it yourself? Why are you drawing conclusions about the game based on YouTube streamers exploiting ultra-cheesy builds worth several mirrors, provided by thousands of fans? That represents 0.00000001% of the player base. Try doing it yourself at least once before making claims.

In games like this, it’s impossible to completely eliminate such exploits. Developers don’t have teams of hundreds of thousands of testers to discover and validate every combination of items and abilities—which are numerous in this game—and push them to absurd limits to prevent some streamer from one-shotting an uber boss.

Yes, I know about cheesy builds, and yes, it’s an issue. But I don’t understand why it bothers you if you’re not engaging in it yourself.

it doesnt bother me coz uber pinnacles are not meant for "regular players". tho i dont follow build guides. i actually do see some of them. they really can easily trivialize the content. in fact, you really dont need mirrors worth. have you seen lightning strike warden in action? spam attack to win. reposition ur self once in a while if necessary.

i ve got what? few hundred divines on standard? simply following a build to just replicate the experience of standing in a safe spot spamming a skill hitting the entire screen takes zero skill. i ve got nothing to prove.

what bothers me is you're brushing off poe2 as tho its a braindead game where its actually quite the opposite. poe1 just needs u to reach certain thresholds then you could either outdps or outlast the content with minimal skill.

and of course i have a huge lot of respect to original sin runners and some really skilled players who actually manually dodge bullet hell phases.

theres even a dude that did uber elder/shaper under level 30.

for sure theres a huge level of skill involved. but i m really not convinced that most poe1 playerbased are that skilled.

you mention builds, exploits, and not being able to balance the game.

you are right. that is why everything in poe1 is simply trivialized. ggg gave up balancing the game too much.

look at poe2. the moment some skills overperformed, ggg is quick to take action.

they do not want to let poe2 turn into poe1.

poe1 is a series of happy mistakes that players either loved or hated.

i loved poe1 enough and have moved on.

So, you’re claiming that Path of Exile 1 is bad because you can one-shot even uber bosses, but at the same time, you call yourself an average player and say that uber bosses are content inaccessible to average players. In other words, you can’t beat uber bosses yourself.

Yet you also claim that PoE 1 is too easy because you can clear all the content with just one button, even though you’ve never managed to do that yourself. That’s a clear contradiction.

You criticize the possibility of clearing content with minimal effort, but that doesn’t devalue the work of those who spend hours mastering mechanics, crafting builds, and honing their skills. If you can’t handle uber bosses yourself, why does it bother you so much that someone else can? No one forces you to use cheesy builds or simplify the game, but if someone else does, that’s their choice.

As for the Lightning Strike Warder build, I’m not deeply into the current meta, but I have a general idea of what you’re talking about. I think you wouldn’t be as upset about this build if you tried it yourself. Most likely, to replicate what you’ve seen on a stream or video, you’d have to invest dozens or even hundreds of hours grinding, gathering currency, gear, and optimizing the build. It’s nowhere near as easy as it looks from the outside.

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AlvinL_#4492 wrote:

The armchair experts play the campaign, struggle, refuse to try something different, log on these forums and complain like there's no tomorrow. Probably parroting some streamer's talking points along the way.

Where do all these comparisons with poe2 to d4 even come from? GGG dealt with the server issues adequately enough, we are getting significant changes to the game already week 1. The gameplay is smooth as silk and it's punishing if you mess up. Did you even play d4??! It was f***ed.

Certainly there are problems with the game and that's to be expected, they will be dealt with. It's ea/beta whatever you wanna call it - you CHOSE to participate. DWI.

Dude, relax. I didn’t even download that disgrace, just like D4. I don’t need to taste garbage to know it’s garbage. Why don’t you tell me more about “one-button gameplay” to someone with a thousand games on invoker, while you’re busy rolling around and pressing your skills once every 8 seconds?

I guess there's a silver lining - since the campaign in poe2 is so much harder, maybe the complainers stop complaining about act1 being hard in poe1 :D

So the irony is that people think PoE2 is harder than PoE1

Yet where PoE1 offers infinite possibilities PoE2 makes you go down a path.

There's just nothing that complex about PoE2.

It's just a test of willpower, am I willing to spend 30 minutes on a map as opposed to 5 minutes.

The maps are worse too...

It's about progression they need to fix it, but even still, the level of complexity in the game the amount of choices you can make will never reach the level of PoE1.

that;s why it's D4. pretty poor (never played D4 but having seen PoE2, there's a chance it's better than poe2)

and poe1 is D2, groundbreaking.

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exsea#1724 wrote:

d2 is much more slower and usually u get shit drops.

You need to go back and play d2 if you think this remotely compares, end of Act 1 if you were being pretty thorough you'd have like 5-10 set items/uniques and probably 50+ rares you'd most likely have a rare in every slot.

I haven't had a unique yet, I get about a rare per 30 minutes which due to laws of probability is extremely likely to be bad/not for my character.

You can't even do mad gambas for loot like D2 because everything was curated to ensure gold values, no selling a +1 skelly wand for 5k and doing some gamba.

edit: I'm strongly against loot showers incidentally but I need something to work with mentally and right now nothing drops so its more sustained disappointment about what disappointment will be next rather than excitement about what could be.

Oh, poe1 not getting trash talked anymore? What a time to be alive :D

As for complexity - keep in mind that poe1 has been accumulating content for almost a decade. It wasn't what it is now back in beta or even a few years after launch. During the several interviews, Jonathan repeatedly pointed out that he's not entirely content with poe1, but making significant changes right now is difficult - think chaos theory: you make small changes to initial conditions which results in large amplitude swings.

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Draegnarrr#2823 wrote:

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exsea#1724 wrote:

d2 is much more slower and usually u get shit drops.

You need to go back and play d2 if you think this remotely compares, end of Act 1 if you were being pretty thorough you'd have like 5-10 set items/uniques and probably 50+ rares you'd most likely have a rare in every slot.

I haven't had a unique yet, I get about a rare per 30 minutes which due to laws of probability is extremely likely to be bad/not for my character.

You can't even do mad gambas for loot like D2 because everything was curated to ensure gold values, no selling a +1 skelly wand for 5k and doing some gamba.

edit: I'm strongly against loot showers incidentally but I need something to work with mentally and right now nothing drops so its more sustained disappointment about what disappointment will be next rather than excitement about what could be.

i actually agree with you but on the flip side. leveling is way slower so to complete act 1 for a newer player, especially "back in the day". you needed much more time. along the way you could pick up nice stuff. such as item sets and uniques.

so the time spent farming does make up for what you get somewhat.

in the meantime, in poe2 i got to level 47 ish and only had 1 unique weapon drop which is crazy good for lvl1 characters.

then again farming 1 map i actually got 3 exalts. so lucky me i guess.

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Draegnarrr#2823 wrote:

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exsea#1724 wrote:

d2 is much more slower and usually u get shit drops.

You need to go back and play d2 if you think this remotely compares, end of Act 1 if you were being pretty thorough you'd have like 5-10 set items/uniques and probably 50+ rares you'd most likely have a rare in every slot.

I haven't had a unique yet, I get about a rare per 30 minutes which due to laws of probability is extremely likely to be bad/not for my character.

You can't even do mad gambas for loot like D2 because everything was curated to ensure gold values, no selling a +1 skelly wand for 5k and doing some gamba.

edit: I'm strongly against loot showers incidentally but I need something to work with mentally and right now nothing drops so its more sustained disappointment about what disappointment will be next rather than excitement about what could be.

all these people parroting the same tired "i love d2 and love this game" are just so full of shit. this game takes everything that was great about d2 and shits on it and does the opposite. these guys all just hate poe1 and are being smarmy about it. oh well, would be nice to play poe1 again if they didnt skip a league and shit all over the performance last year with some ridiculous patch that was never fixed

Totally agree, the fishbrains in this thread are trying to say you said you wanted a lootshower like poe1 so they're all up in their felings. There is absolutely a middleground to be struck here where you can feel some rewarding progression from beating the game and not run 15 hours of an "arpg" without any upgrades or opportunity to craft, it needs to be tweaked no doubt.

Would love them to add in more currency item-types over time also, more static crafting and so on. We're not sure what's missing in the game because its half-finished still, might be better in a couple months.

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bachgaman#6713 wrote:

So, you’re claiming that Path of Exile 1 is bad because you can one-shot even uber bosses, but at the same time, you call yourself an average player and say that uber bosses are content inaccessible to average players. In other words, you can’t beat uber bosses yourself.

Yet you also claim that PoE 1 is too easy because you can clear all the content with just one button, even though you’ve never managed to do that yourself. That’s a clear contradiction.

You criticize the possibility of clearing content with minimal effort, but that doesn’t devalue the work of those who spend hours mastering mechanics, crafting builds, and honing their skills. If you can’t handle uber bosses yourself, why does it bother you so much that someone else can? No one forces you to use cheesy builds or simplify the game, but if someone else does, that’s their choice.

As for the Lightning Strike Warder build, I’m not deeply into the current meta, but I have a general idea of what you’re talking about. I think you wouldn’t be as upset about this build if you tried it yourself. Most likely, to replicate what you’ve seen on a stream or video, you’d have to invest dozens or even hundreds of hours grinding, gathering currency, gear, and optimizing the build. It’s nowhere near as easy as it looks from the outside.

i think you're missing my entire point. but to summarize.

poe1 has flaws that are inherent in the system and evolution of the game.

ultimately the best way to play poe IF you want to clear everything is just checking off checkmarks. you dont need to learn the game, just need to be smart enough to follow a build guide and farm the items required.

poe2 on the flipside is easy to understand but has a very high player skill required on top of good gear/builds.

this is in response to your original "There's literally nothing to do there. It's an empty shell, like any Souls-like game that hides the lack of content behind artificially inflated difficulty and mechanical dodge-roll spam."


whether poe1 bad or not doesnt matter. you asked me about it and i m explaining why i believe your statement is wrong and downplaying poe2.

especially "artificially inflated difficulty".

uber pinnacles are exactly that. it is simply unbalanced.

for example if you use a strike skill that requires your weapon to bonk the opponent to do damage. uber sirus spawns huge ass area of denials. you get outranged and the best way to do uber sirus is not use a melee skill that has poor range.

this mechanic existed since his inception. GGG likes it and hides behind it being "aspirational" content.

in my 10 years i've been using variations of my own build. i could never clear the feared. this patch, melee got a huge update. i cleared the feared for the first time in my life.

all it took was more damage, enough for me to delete them before they become a problem.

as i said, theres 2 main ways to delete with obstacles in poe1. outdps or outlast. you rarely actually have to rely on real skill in poe1 if you're strong enough. so yeah. its pretty ironic for you calling poe2 an empty shell with inflated content when every single main boss in poe2 has VERY interesting attacks to learn. whereas in poe1, what boss attacks do you have? theyre dead before they can do anything. unless of course t17s and ubers. which ggg added to you know... inflate content.