Hope the TOTA league mechanics never make it to the core

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Nomancs wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

My question was how does your build compare with TotA build in terms of how careful you have to play. I was trying to get a useful statement out of you. It was unsuccessful though.

Because that is very subjective thing, like how careful I play. I mean - regular is the best way I could describe it, no more no less than what I do while playing maps.

Trying to make it more objective. You basically got those options - unless I am missing something:
1) Tank hits.
2) Avoid/dodge/block/evade hits. TotA build approach.
3) Stay away to not get hit.
4) Manually dodge hits.
Far as I understand you need to do at least one of those. Maybe depending on what you are up against. Which one/s is it?

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Nomancs wrote:

About 2 - it is really hard to give more numbers other than time (10-15min),

Already said: Issue with that range is that its too wide. If you do 150 tournamets (for rank 2000 if you stop there) then this is 5*150 = 750 minutes = 12.5h difference. You can make a TotA build in less time than that in trade league. So from my POV this matters significantly.

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Nomancs wrote:

10 losses from 0 to 2k.

Assuming you did actually answer my question and "losses" is match losses and not tournament losses then this is IMO good from numbers perspective. Also already said.

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Nomancs wrote:

I don't know if there is a budget, like you can mostly rely on team composition and knowing enemy moves/troops, sure some block maybe evasion can help, but are not that mandatory.

Cant turn that into numbers. If you do team right etc you can win most matches and tournaments with any build. If you got a good TotA build you can likely win all matches if you fill the ranks with random fodder.

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Zrevnur wrote:

Cant turn that into numbers. If you do team right etc you can win most matches and tournaments with any build. If you got a good TotA build you can likely win all matches if you fill the ranks with random fodder.

Disagree with that. Firstly from my own perspective with a strong build, and some matches were just unwinnable. Secondly, because sometimes you don't get enough points on the board to have a solid enough team, or the points will be the wrong type. Some tournaments have low points on offer across the board, so you could end up with over half the units be starting Navali units. Not a fun time when up against super charged Kuhuru or Trawlers or 4 sunset sages and so on.

The mode is hilariously unbalanced.

If this goes core more or less unchanged, I'll never touch it again. And there will probably be pretty many in that group.

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Pangaearocks wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

Cant turn that into numbers. If you do team right etc you can win most matches and tournaments with any build. If you got a good TotA build you can likely win all matches if you fill the ranks with random fodder.

Disagree with that.

Which part/s do you disagree with?

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Pangaearocks wrote:

The mode is hilariously unbalanced.

If this goes core more or less unchanged, I'll never touch it again. And there will probably be pretty many in that group.

I am not defending the mode...

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If you do team right etc you can win most matches and tournaments with any build.

This is what I disagreed with.

There have been too many matches where, even with a very, very strong team, it has felt like 1 vs 17 because it's like the AI has been turned off on my team, and they do nothing.

Hell, I even tried out a phantasmal void sphere setup in a pseudo 5-link in a last attempt at the mode, and still got my arse kicked in some matches. Glad I was able to sell that gem, so I have no temptation to naively try again.

We probably agree on a lot, but I just disagreed with that sentence based on my own experience with a very strong build. Well, strong build for pretty much everything else in the game. TOTA? Not so much.

I absolutely love TOTA, having tons of fun with it. I recently hit 2000 and I'm still enjoying it. I'm running a normal build, no voidsphere cheese.

I'm not saying you have to like it, but why would you want to ruin it for people who do? WTF is with this mentality.

It's like saying I don't like Delve so it should be removed from the game. Just cause I hate it. Wouldn't that be a really stupid thing to say...

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Pangaearocks wrote:

"

If you do team right etc you can win most matches and tournaments with any build.

This is what I disagreed with.

There have been too many matches where, even with a very, very strong team, it has felt like 1 vs 17 because it's like the AI has been turned off on my team, and they do nothing.

With "most" I mean >50%. So what you write about your experiences is not a contradiction to my statement.

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Pangaearocks wrote:

Hell, I even tried out a phantasmal void sphere setup in a pseudo 5-link in a last attempt at the mode, and still got my arse kicked in some matches. Glad I was able to sell that gem, so I have no temptation to naively try again.

Also tried adding Void Sphere to normal build and it didnt help much. Not the phantasmal version though.

--

See also link in this post for somebody (apparently) easily winning without a build: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3416462/page/2#p25115616 This is on an old patch though so I cant say if whatever is done there still works. My personal experience suggests that winning most matches/tournaments is possible with normal builds but the gameplay is unfun and it takes too long and too much fiddling.

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Zrevnur wrote:

Trying to make it more objective. You basically got those options - unless I am missing something:
1) Tank hits.
2) Avoid/dodge/block/evade hits. TotA build approach.
3) Stay away to not get hit.
4) Manually dodge hits.
Far as I understand you need to do at least one of those. Maybe depending on what you are up against. Which one/s is it?

I would say it is mostly either 1 (if you count my golem tanking) or 3, because enemy units rarely target me and are slow (I've got temp chains+aspect of the spider).

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Zrevnur wrote:

Already said: Issue with that range is that its too wide. If you do 150 tournamets (for rank 2000 if you stop there) then this is 5*150 = 750 minutes = 12.5h difference. You can make a TotA build in less time than that in trade league. So from my POV this matters significantly.

It got this range cause I'm doing other stuff while playing, since I got my 40/40, plenty of currency (not saying this as a flex but as a context) I often chat with friends, check yt between games - not focusing much, playing only for fun and not aiming at anything ingame now. Sometimes crafting things - I'm letting myself be distracted (maybe thats why I have this positive mindset, cause I'm just enjoying the game without any pressure to get XYZ).

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Zrevnur wrote:

]Assuming you did actually answer my question and "losses" is match losses and not tournament losses then this is IMO good from numbers perspective. Also already said.

No, it would be 2 tournaments total (early league), 10 games overall.

It is worth adding - I can get turtle in 5-7sec down, I've heard thats an issue for some zdps people (but they seems to not set up team well).

I somewhat agree with OP.
Don't like autobattler on PC. It's nice for PoE mobile, for whoever will play that.
The rewards are cool, so if it stays, I might use some of them, but I don't plan to play the mechanic after this league.

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Nomancs wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

Trying to make it more objective. You basically got those options - unless I am missing something:
1) Tank hits.
2) Avoid/dodge/block/evade hits. TotA build approach.
3) Stay away to not get hit.
4) Manually dodge hits.
Far as I understand you need to do at least one of those. Maybe depending on what you are up against. Which one/s is it?

I would say it is mostly either 1 (if you count my golem tanking) or 3, because enemy units rarely target me and are slow (I've got temp chains+aspect of the spider).

So its #3. Thats also what I did with my failed DPS attempt, maybe I will try again with more DPS. Supposedly DPS builds can work well in TotA. Technically they should be superior to avoid builds with enough DPS/reach. The questions are however:
1) How hard to play?
2) How much cost?

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Nomancs wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

Already said: Issue with that range is that its too wide. If you do 150 tournamets (for rank 2000 if you stop there) then this is 5*150 = 750 minutes = 12.5h difference. You can make a TotA build in less time than that in trade league. So from my POV this matters significantly.

It got this range cause I'm doing other stuff while playing, since I got my 40/40, plenty of currency (not saying this as a flex but as a context) I often chat with friends, check yt between games - not focusing much, playing only for fun and not aiming at anything ingame now. Sometimes crafting things - I'm letting myself be distracted (maybe thats why I have this positive mindset, cause I'm just enjoying the game without any pressure to get XYZ).

Thats a lot of words for not giving a clear answer. If you dont want to test it properly just say so?

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Nomancs wrote:

It is worth adding - I can get turtle in 5-7sec down, I've heard thats an issue for some zdps people (but they seems to not set up team well).

"Turtle" can be a problem for zdps if they dont set up team well. True. Not sure if thats unavoidable though, dont have sufficient knowledge, "Turtle" AI is supposedly counterable so that it doesnt defend its totem. The reason for them not setting up team well however is that they only would need to do this vs defending "turtle".

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Zrevnur wrote:

1) How hard to play?
2) How much cost?

1. walking simulator level if you're experienced
2. below 3div probably, not sure tho, because I reached 2k over a month ago (or maybe more?)

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Zrevnur wrote:

Thats a lot of words for not giving a clear answer. If you dont want to test it properly just say so?

10-15min, already told you lol.

Edit: Sorry for short replies, I'm driving a tractor rn in Farming Simulator 2022