Zizaran relogauntlet question

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Rikku wrote:

asked myself how ppl play HC in this game cause it's much harder than diablo

saw they "just" press panic button / logout, now makes sense - without this logout macro i assume HC in poe would be dead cause nobody could handle it

it's fine imo. lame, but fine

I actually think it isn't harder than diablo, diablo had some really sketch stuff when shit hit the fan at just the right time and required ludicrous time to really gear up correctly if you weren't relying on dupes etc.

PoE though I know it looks bad with the logout bois but plenty of us play HC without doing so, I can't say I smash 8 mod the feared every league but I generally kill all the bosses if I have time and i'm hardly an exceptional player.

you can make really really tanky characters in this game, almost ridiculously so.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

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feral_nature wrote:

i think the no amphetamine rule is pretty harsh.

It's also fucking impossible to enforce online.

Not to mention ridiculously unfair given quite a few people in the world use them as prescribed and are entirely better off for it.

Only someone with a delightful amount of body and mental health privilege would even think to suggest 'banning' a medication just because some people abuse it. That's dangerously myopic thinking.

I've seen literally thousand of suggestions re PoE and that's honestly one of the least realistic.

I think it wasnt serious, or as much as your response seemed serious.

The issue, I think, was ridiculously long play sessions, encouraged by monetary gains, to the amusement of the viewers.

I have long said this was a problem, but alas people do destructive shit all the time. In a realistic, sane, universe, we would restrict consecutive playing hours or somehting along those lines. But of course people will argue about personal responsibility and being able to do what they want.

I tend to lean towards this being somewhat tolerable in the absence of the monetization of said "suffering". The thought experiment being if you were rich, and dangled dollars towards desperate, or willing, people to engage in dangerous behavior, for your's or an audience's amusement, where do moral lines get crossed?

I suppose the long-winded point is that GGG shouldn't be incentivizing behavior like this with cash prizes, and shouldn't "hide" behind the fact this particular gauntlet tournament series is community funded. Its certainly not a glamorous portrayal of the game with your top content creators playing to the point of exhaustion (at best)

Gauntlet indeed.

Stress mine.

Man, I just don't assume this on here, like, ever -- unless I've seen a bunch of a person's posts OR they're adept at tone indication through prolonged usage of the written word to express themselves.

As for the rest: yep. Just plain old yep. Whatever moral high ground GGG once held went right out the window once I realised, or at least could no longer deny, that they run their game like a casino. And I know I don't have to elaborate on that, because I have already done so far too many times. I don't think the fact that it's not pay-to-win is even a consideration anymore. It doesn't matter if the currency of a casino is real money or plastic chips or dollarydoos, if the operation itself is tuned to addict people and encourage them to forego relatively basic health considerations, then that's reprehensible.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Stress mine.

Man, I just don't assume this on here, like, ever -- unless I've seen a bunch of a person's posts OR they're adept at tone indication through prolonged usage of the written word to express themselves.

As for the rest: yep. Just plain old yep. Whatever moral high ground GGG once held went right out the window once I realised, or at least could no longer deny, that they run their game like a casino. And I know I don't have to elaborate on that, because I have already done so far too many times. I don't think the fact that it's not pay-to-win is even a consideration anymore. It doesn't matter if the currency of a casino is real money or plastic chips or dollarydoos, if the operation itself is tuned to addict people and encourage them to forego relatively basic health considerations, then that's reprehensible.

but is that really different from diablo 2? at its core arpg is a slot machine in a casino, just not involving real money, the currency is time

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Aetherium wrote:

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Stress mine.

Man, I just don't assume this on here, like, ever -- unless I've seen a bunch of a person's posts OR they're adept at tone indication through prolonged usage of the written word to express themselves.

As for the rest: yep. Just plain old yep. Whatever moral high ground GGG once held went right out the window once I realised, or at least could no longer deny, that they run their game like a casino. And I know I don't have to elaborate on that, because I have already done so far too many times. I don't think the fact that it's not pay-to-win is even a consideration anymore. It doesn't matter if the currency of a casino is real money or plastic chips or dollarydoos, if the operation itself is tuned to addict people and encourage them to forego relatively basic health considerations, then that's reprehensible.

but is that really different from diablo 2? at its core arpg is a slot machine in a casino, just not involving real money, the currency is time

It is. Many are Blizzard's faults (even back during the heyday of Blizz North and Bnet) but I never once got the impression from them that they "encouraged players to forego basic health considerations", which I believe is sort of the point of this thread re competitors possibly resorting to non-OTC stimulants. Sure, we D2 vets likely had our share of unhealthy marathons but that was on us. It wasn't an implicit part of how the game worked.

I think this ties back to PoE's infamy as a truly "hardcore" game, which in turn gives its apologists fairly solid ground when it comes to questioning whether or not GGG are complicit if not necessarily directly at fault. Not to mention another favourite chestnut around here: ultimate end user responsibility to a point of virtually excusing GGG's lack of effort to update the game from its crude beta in terms of UI and user friendliness.

So while you can abstract something as basic as "ARPG=rng loot lever pulling using time as currency" and not necessarily be wrong, to do so is to miss the point: it is not the existence of the gambling aspect inherent to any game with rng determining character efficacy in question here; it is the attitude of the casino itself and how it takes that basic aspect and juices it to a point where the well-being of its users is not so much a secondary consideration as no consideration at all.

Were grueling races the only factor I wouldn't be so convinced, but combined with GGG's utter lack of concern for accessibility (in 2022, this is downright arrogant imo) and their assumption that players will do a lot of extra curricular work just to play the game, I am left with the belief that when GGG refer to dedicated streamers as "the community" they are sending a fairly clear message to the actual community: this is your standard. These are your rolemodels. Your exemplars.

Which brings us back to the point of this thread: are these actually good rolemodels? Is how they play representative of the Exile par excellence in GGG's eyes?

I played a LOT of D2 and not once did I feel like Blizzard were demanding I or any other player live up to some pseudo-celebrity's unrealistic level of play. And sure, had there been twitch back then, that might have been different. But I also played my share of D3 and again, I couldn't even tell you the name of any big D3 streamer who isnt also a known PoE player. GGG are obsessed with the notion of having popular streamers play their game (to the point where they will betray their supporters to pander to said streamers) -- it's a weirdly low ambition when their game has always been good enough to speak for itself.

But I get it: streamer exposure has always been directly linked to profit for GGG. They made about 50k off the first wave of Diamond pack sales in 2012. Not bad. But the first weekend Kripp streamed, they sold over 10,000 beta keys at 10 bucks a pop. I reckon that single event was where it all started. That was when GGG knew that Twitch integration and making their game as streamable as possible was their real goal...and these high stakes races, the very topic of the thread, the almost mechanical approach to them, is one of the eventualities of that early epiphany.

D2 had none of this. D3 might -- but since I feel no need to look anything up regarding that game just to play it, I remain happily ignorant. PoE is unique among ARPGs in that it blurs game and metagame to the point where it is very hard to ignore the prominence of its 'celebrity' players and their supposed status as the best of "the community".

To return briefly to the casino metaphor, streamers may well serve a role not even real life casinos often fill: professional gamblers catered to by the casino all in the pursuit of making the game look a lot less rigged than it really is. Oh, nothing so crass as manipulated RNG -- they hardly need to do that when their resident pros are already counting the cards because how could they not?

It's brilliant, really. Where a casino might ban a player who has figured out the system and is fleecing the table, GGG realised that as long as these people aren't overtly breaking the rules (RMT, botting, complicated macros, etc) they are much more useful as highly visible symbols of false hope for the rubes and the plebs than as martyrs...because the rubes and the plebs know the game is not in their favour. They don't care. As long as SOMEONE is winning, surely it is possible that someone might someday be them. The next drop may well be a Mirror...the next drop...the next...

Regular HC race with banned logout macro would be harder than this "omega gauntlet" with it being allowed. More interesting to watch as well.

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Aynix wrote:

Regular HC race with banned logout macro would be harder than this "omega gauntlet" with it being allowed. More interesting to watch as well.

I'd absolutely love this, finally my chance to lose on my own terms instead of someone elses :D

This is the only reason I ever watch the GFL highlights.
Their faces when they smash that logout macro and still die... priceless.

The fact it even exists is ridiculous, and removes any possible credibility HC has as a real 'HC mode'.

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DreadLordAvatar wrote:

Reasons D3 is superior in so many ways. They have a logout countdown timer so no insta quit cheating, pets are useful for picking up gold, radius pickup for currency, unid all, and account bound items so no cheating with trade or TFT. Ggg how embarrassing!

you cant cheat in ssf and if diablo 3 is so superior go play it wanna see you do rifts and well rifts oh yes and more rifts did i say rifts? becuz theres nothing else in that game except rifts

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Chalace2 wrote:

This is the only reason I ever watch the GFL highlights.
Their faces when they smash that logout macro and still die... priceless.

The fact it even exists is ridiculous, and removes any possible credibility HC has as a real 'HC mode'.

the game is balanced literally around logouts and why do you even care about it no one is forcing you to use it?

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Gopstop22 wrote:

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Chalace2 wrote:

This is the only reason I ever watch the GFL highlights.
Their faces when they smash that logout macro and still die... priceless.

The fact it even exists is ridiculous, and removes any possible credibility HC has as a real 'HC mode'.

the game is balanced literally around logouts and why do you even care about it no one is forcing you to use it?

Pretty sure the 2nd part of my statement says everything that needs to be said.
I don't play HC, because it isn't HC, it's a gimmick.