Harvest Changes - Kick and Scream

poe dead game lmao all they had to do buff harvest and remove tft aids

C'mon guys!

They arent taking deterministic crafting away... the recognized that something is too powerful within deterministic crafting and are removing a relatively rare set of crafts to make sure there isnt a level of power creep that is damaging to the game.

You still get to go to see your favorite band... you just cant go backstage and do blow with them.

Boundaries are good sometimes...

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Reichugo232323 wrote:

C'mon guys!

They arent taking deterministic crafting away... the recognized that something is too powerful within deterministic crafting and are removing a relatively rare set of crafts to make sure there isnt a level of power creep that is damaging to the game.

You still get to go to see your favorite band... you just cant go backstage and do blow with them.

Boundaries are good sometimes...

They claim annuls to be too powerful. I only got maybe 8 annuls the whole league. I dont see that as being op.

Again
And again
I will repeat

Harvest is not the problem
Tft is

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RitualMurder wrote:

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Reichugo232323 wrote:

C'mon guys!

They arent taking deterministic crafting away... the recognized that something is too powerful within deterministic crafting and are removing a relatively rare set of crafts to make sure there isnt a level of power creep that is damaging to the game.

You still get to go to see your favorite band... you just cant go backstage and do blow with them.

Boundaries are good sometimes...

They claim annuls to be too powerful. I only got maybe 8 annuls the whole league. I dont see that as being op.

Again
And again
I will repeat

Harvest is not the problem
Tft is

TARGETTED annuls are too powerful!

And the list of alternatives to "solve" tft are either very convoluted or not actually gonna stop the abuse, imo. Players are insanely resourceful and GGG is addressing a ROOT CAUSE with these changes. I understand why people are upset but sometimes you have to look at the big picture and the long game. It is LIKELY that ultimatum is bringing in more crafting changes, so there is a good chance that also impacted that decision.

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RitualMurder wrote:

Tft is

Sadly, trade is the sacred thing here. Buying the best items has always been easy. Hell, it's one whisper - it's easy as hell. Farming 500+ maps for a couple of Harvest mods? A lot of effort, but made too easy because of trade. One has to go, and it will NEVER be trade.

This decision should be the final nail in the coffin to people that do not believe that PoE is balanced around trading. They more or less directly said it themselves in the manifesto; it was too powerful when people traded crafts, so they had to nerf it - because of (amongst other things) trade.

Trade is - and will always be the center of balance. And that fact is very limiting for the game - and what they can do in terms of mechanics.

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innervation wrote:

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Exile009 wrote:

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RitualMurder wrote:

Again and again people

Tft is the issue
Not harvest itself

Okay, even if we agree on that, then what's the solution to it? Cos bind on account is a non-starter for both GGG and a lot of the playerbase, so what other ideas do you have that kills TFT while leaving self-crafters untouched?

There have been a mountain of suggestions including:

Cap the amount of times an item can be put into the Harvest craft window.

Cap the amount of affixes Harvest can add to an item (like 1 crafting bench mod)

Make Harvest crafting soulbound, but the item not. So if you put Pain Spike Jeweled Foil into the bench and do anything on it with Harvest, you are now the only player who can further modify it with Harvest.

Cap affix tiers that Harvest can add (like crafting bench)

Make most Harvest crafts non functional on influenced items

Itemize the crafts like Bestiary has

Straight up remove the top end crafts on items from harvest and reintegrate them into the base game in some form or function.

A lot of those suggestions, if not all of them, are at least as big nerfs (if not bigger) as GGG's own proposed changes. Which means they'd have faced a huge backlash as well. Indeed one of them - "Make most Harvest crafts non functional on influenced items" - kinda IS GGG's proposed change.

Meanwhile, itemizing the crafts only obviates TFT by superceding it with something even more convenient, which just further exacerbates the kind of power crafting that led them to consider nerfs to begin with. As such, it's not really applicable here - sure you can make that change, but it's not got anything to do with bringing Harvest back in line. Ditto the last idea too.

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Exile009 wrote:

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innervation wrote:

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Exile009 wrote:

Okay, even if we agree on that, then what's the solution to it? Cos bind on account is a non-starter for both GGG and a lot of the playerbase, so what other ideas do you have that kills TFT while leaving self-crafters untouched?

There have been a mountain of suggestions including:

Cap the amount of times an item can be put into the Harvest craft window.

Cap the amount of affixes Harvest can add to an item (like 1 crafting bench mod)

Make Harvest crafting soulbound, but the item not. So if you put Pain Spike Jeweled Foil into the bench and do anything on it with Harvest, you are now the only player who can further modify it with Harvest.

Cap affix tiers that Harvest can add (like crafting bench)

Make most Harvest crafts non functional on influenced items

Itemize the crafts like Bestiary has

Straight up remove the top end crafts on items from harvest and reintegrate them into the base game in some form or function.

A lot of those suggestions, if not all of them, are at least as big nerfs (if not bigger) as GGG's own proposed changes. Which means they'd have faced a huge backlash as well. Indeed one of them - "Make most Harvest crafts non functional on influenced items" - kinda IS GGG's proposed change.

Meanwhile, itemizing the crafts only obviates TFT by superceding it with something even more convenient, which just further exacerbates the kind of power crafting that led them to consider nerfs to begin with. As such, it's not really applicable here - sure you can make that change, but it's not got anything to do with bringing Harvest back in line. Ditto the last idea too.

Nailed it.

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Reichugo232323 wrote:

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Exile009 wrote:

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innervation wrote:

There have been a mountain of suggestions including:

Cap the amount of times an item can be put into the Harvest craft window.

Cap the amount of affixes Harvest can add to an item (like 1 crafting bench mod)

Make Harvest crafting soulbound, but the item not. So if you put Pain Spike Jeweled Foil into the bench and do anything on it with Harvest, you are now the only player who can further modify it with Harvest.

Cap affix tiers that Harvest can add (like crafting bench)

Make most Harvest crafts non functional on influenced items

Itemize the crafts like Bestiary has

Straight up remove the top end crafts on items from harvest and reintegrate them into the base game in some form or function.

A lot of those suggestions, if not all of them, are at least as big nerfs (if not bigger) as GGG's own proposed changes. Which means they'd have faced a huge backlash as well. Indeed one of them - "Make most Harvest crafts non functional on influenced items" - kinda IS GGG's proposed change.

Meanwhile, itemizing the crafts only obviates TFT by superceding it with something even more convenient, which just further exacerbates the kind of power crafting that led them to consider nerfs to begin with. As such, it's not really applicable here - sure you can make that change, but it's not got anything to do with bringing Harvest back in line. Ditto the last idea too.

Nailed it.

Nailed what exactly? Any grouping of those options could be accompanied by a rebalance of other things to make the overall scope of change palatable.

Every single change listed there would be a step toward less TFT use. Replying with 'yeah but that's an overall nerf' isn't nailing anything other than to demonstrate a lack of time spent thinking about the subject.

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innervation wrote:

Nailed it.

Nailed what exactly? Any grouping of those options could be accompanied by a rebalance of other things to make the overall scope of change palatable.

Every single change listed there would be a step toward less TFT use. Replying with 'yeah but that's an overall nerf' isn't nailing anything other than to demonstrate a lack of time spent thinking about the subject.[/quote]

Each of those solutions have significant side effects and, as I said, are pretty convoluted.

I believe it was you who said you got 8 annuls all league.

Why is this bothering you so much? Either those 8 annuls were the incredibly valued by you (a decent indicator of their OP factor) or you just dont like the idea of being "nerfed". If its the second... i get it! This isnt fun, but addressing issues at the root cause is better than trying to manage downstream manipulations (like tft).

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Reichugo232323 wrote:

rate a lack of time spent thinking about the subject.

Each of those solutions have significant side effects and, as I said, are pretty convoluted.

I believe it was you who said you got 8 annuls all league.

Why is this bothering you so much? Either those 8 annuls were the incredibly valued by you (a decent indicator of their OP factor) or you just dont like the idea of being "nerfed". If its the second... i get it! This isnt fun, but addressing issues at the root cause is better than trying to manage downstream manipulations (like tft).

The 8 annul guy you're referencing is not me - his post is on the same page as your reply, just scroll up to check. And you can put the psychoanalysis on hold - GGG cut players a check for 100,000 dollars with the 3.13 implementation of Harvest. They're now telling you that number was a clerical error and the check is only going to be for 95,000 dollars and people are acting like GGG have kicked their dog and stolen their life savings. It's pathetic.