Harvest Changes - Kick and Scream

Wait- now i am confused.

Are you pro harvest nerf?

If the whining is pathetic, why are you saying the nerf is offbase?

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Reichugo232323 wrote:

Are you pro harvest nerf?

Eh, yea sure.

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If the whining is pathetic, why are you saying the nerf is offbase?

What?

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Reichugo232323 wrote:

Wait- now i am confused.

Are you pro harvest nerf?

If the whining is pathetic, why are you saying the nerf is offbase?

It's off base because the manifesto targeted the dumbest part of Harvest's reintegration but only nominally. Gating the pinnacle of gear upgrading behind a 3rd party tool has no place in an ARPG. It involves neither action nor roleplaying, although if you want to be charitable I guess it is playing a game of sorts.

Having identified this as one of the reasons the 3.13 implementation of Harvest is...lacking, they proceeded to not do nearly enough to prevent its continued supremacy above all other gear acquisition mechanisms.

So the upcoming nerfs (assuming they do exactly what has been announced) are offbase because you can already watch videos and read reddit and forum posts about what will still be possible - feats of crafting that are both extremely powerful and enabled solely by Harvest. Thus, we know TFT won't be going anywhere. Thus, we know the nerfs weren't strong enough, or were not targeted in quite the right place.

You may notice they are doing one of the things on my list from earlier in the thread. They should pick one or two more.

The whining being pathetic is it's own issue. Any amount of Harvest represents free power creep. Any amount of Harvest is more Harvest than the game had for 95% of its lifespan. So crying about having 5% skimmed off the top of the most insane power creep the game has EVER seen strikes me as very...well it could be a number of different things. Short sighted, naive, entitled, and spoiled come to mind.

I've said in other threads if they could completely nuke TFT trading and decouple Harvest from the 1 Atlas region that supports it I wouldn't be against buffs to Harvest as a mechanic. It would still represent more power creep in one shot than I think is healthy for the game, but at least it would be a more ethical in-game activity where the final boss isn't a shady scam-prone discord transaction.

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Noble_Seiken wrote:

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Overmind29 wrote:

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Exile009 wrote:

This game allows you more build flexibility than pretty much any of its competitors, both past and foreseeable future.

Well....technically...yes, but actually no.
The game does "allow" build flexibility, mechanically, the meta and price of what you would actually need to make those builds work past the story doesn't.

Hence why the harvest outcry. It made the premise of more builds for everyone a thing.

Umm, Harvest is fucking expensive. Not sure what kind of affordable "more builds for everyone" you're talking about.

Wrong.

There's another problem I think you're alluding to - expecting to be godlike with little effort. This isn't an easy game and should be treated with sustained effort. The difficulty range is wide and there's something for everybody, but if you can't do EVERYTHING, that's ok, just try to have fun and stop comparing yourself to the success of others.

You are contradicting yourself - first you say the harvest is expensive, then you rant about people having "godlike gear" with no effort...

The harvest is expensive only when you want to use TFT, otherwise it is the enabler for more build diversity, as people can craft targeted gear needed for the builds.

Yes, the game is difficult, but the sheer amount of time needed for non-harvest crafting, because of hundreds of wasted currencies on mindless RNG has actually NOTHING to do with difficulty. It has no connection to your skill, your knowledge of the game, or your progress so far. Furthermore, you have no way to affect it, so really...where is the difficulty in that beyond having to spend more time on mindless currency grind? Which again is not difficult in any way, just time-consumming.

TLDR; Difficult =/= time consumming

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Noble_Seiken wrote:

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Overmind29 wrote:

Umm, Harvest is fucking expensive. Not sure what kind of affordable "more builds for everyone" you're talking about.

Wrong.

There's another problem I think you're alluding to - expecting to be godlike with little effort. This isn't an easy game and should be treated with sustained effort. The difficulty range is wide and there's something for everybody, but if you can't do EVERYTHING, that's ok, just try to have fun and stop comparing yourself to the success of others.

You are contradicting yourself - first you say the harvest is expensive, then you rant about people having "godlike gear" with no effort...

The harvest is expensive only when you want to use TFT, otherwise it is the enabler for more build diversity, as people can craft targeted gear needed for the builds.

Yes, the game is difficult, but the sheer amount of time needed for non-harvest crafting, because of hundreds of wasted currencies on mindless RNG has actually NOTHING to do with difficulty. It has no connection to your skill, your knowledge of the game, or your progress so far. Furthermore, you have no way to affect it, so really...where is the difficulty in that beyond having to spend more time on mindless currency grind? Which again is not difficult in any way, just time-consumming.

TLDR; Difficult =/= time consumming

No,
Harvest is expensive making it so that people CAN'T get godlike gear easily. I didn't say people ARE getting godlike gear, only that they WANT to.

Yes, TFT is the problem here, but there's no way to get around it without draconian measures.

Nope, your knowledge of the game DIRECTLY affects how fast you progress.

Stop grinding currency to "catch up" to everyone else and have fun. The wealth will come.

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Noble_Seiken wrote:

Nope, your knowledge of the game DIRECTLY affects how fast you progress.

Stop grinding currency to "catch up" to everyone else and have fun. The wealth will come.

How? You can have knowledge about whatever, but it is not going to drop the exalts faster and it definitely does not affect the outcome of your RNG crafts. And yes, for reasonable gearing, you do need exalts for trading because crafting is honestly just a waste of time and resources unless you can spend hours in the game just grinding.

Tbh as I don't enjoy grinding at all (if you didn't already notice :D ) I don't do it. Just trying to justify why a lot of people are mad about harvest changes, because I fully understand that frustration, as for average player the non-harvest crafting is just endless grind.

ITT: The same handful of people who always whiteknight for GGG come together to once again congratulate GGG on driving everyone else away.

I have never seen such an echo chamber as this.

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Overmind29 wrote:

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Noble_Seiken wrote:

Nope, your knowledge of the game DIRECTLY affects how fast you progress.

Stop grinding currency to "catch up" to everyone else and have fun. The wealth will come.

How? You can have knowledge about whatever, but it is not going to drop the exalts faster and it definitely does not affect the outcome of your RNG crafts. And yes, for reasonable gearing, you do need exalts for trading because crafting is honestly just a waste of time and resources unless you can spend hours in the game just grinding.

Lol,
Yes, the RNG doesn't change, but knowing how to properly juice maps, what maps to farm, how to craft, etc. IS THE BEST WAY TO MAKE MONEY.

Lol, how are you unaware of this?

Hip Hip Hooray for closing my eyes and slamming exalts that drop maybe once a week (if that) with an outdated/underperforming benchcrafting pool of crafts...you know because I must not be doing something right to have it raining exalts in every map, true story.

Oh the future is so bright. I can't wait to Start ID'ing every good rare base that drops in every map. My hype towards this is just through the roof! Thanks White Knighter's you really are something of a gem in this game telling us all just how inefficent we are and what not. It's really nice to get such a perspective to help enhance my own to fully be on par with those who can kill Maven in the 1st week or two of league launching in the future! Oh wait, on the other hand, I think I'll just stay in Standard and enjoy the fruits of my labors that didn't involve any Harvest trading. Ye it took longer to make gear better but it was fun while it lasted...appears the crafting will involve more fossils and beasts in the future to make crafting all work, which will actually cost something then getting free crafts from just running maps.

Edit: I Tried so hard and got so far, but in the end, it doesn't really matter. We players are at the mercy of whatever changes happen in this game, whether buffs or nerfs, and I don't think the most extreme outrage will change that with GGG. They have their vision of what this games' direction will be and have put in a lot of resources and time into.

If the future changes are buffs, great, if not, gotta roll with the punches and find other ways to get the best available results, and that is my view currently of these Harvest changes. I am sure there will be certain crafts that are still strong and beneficial to use, it just won't be as easy to basically edit the mods on gear as they are now. That is all, it's just not worth being stressed out to the max over imho.

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AShugars wrote:

Hip Hip Hooray for closing my eyes and slamming exalts that drop maybe once a week (if that) with an outdated/underperforming benchcrafting pool of crafts...you know because I must not be doing something right to have it raining exalts in every map, true story.

Oh the future is so bright. I can't wait to Start ID'ing every good rare base that drops in every map. My hype towards this is just through the roof! Thanks White Knighter's you really are something of a gem in this game telling us all just how inefficent we are and what not. It's really nice to get such a perspective to help enhance my own to fully be on par with those who can kill Maven in the 1st week or two of league launching in the future! Oh wait, on the other hand, I think I'll just stay in Standard and enjoy the fruits of my labors that didn't involve any Harvest trading. Ye it took longer to make gear better but it was fun while it lasted...appears the crafting will involve more fossils and beasts in the future to make crafting all work, which will actually cost something then getting free crafts from just running maps.

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Just because you don't better ways to craft and all you know is slamming, doesn't mean they don't exist. Lol dude.