King of Bullshit: 10% death penalty

"

kompaniet wrote:

"

stalkingjackal wrote:

Didn't diablo 2 have a death xp penalty as well?

If you're really intent on reaching 100 maybe don't run rippy maps/bosses with that character? Or if u run with a HH then maps will be a non-issue.

I personally don't care about xp past 90, but just saying. Pure breachstones/beachheads would be much safer to grind for those last few lvls.

d2 only had goldloss on death which could be circumvented by putting your gold in the stash. also lost all your equipped items which were retrieved upon clicking your corpse.

correct me if i am wrong.

you're wrong, there is -10% exp, you can recover some getting your coprse, but you're naked so you can die agan, exp recovery will no longer be possible and you can lose way more exp without recovering any.
https://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Experience

"

Nomancs wrote:

"

kompaniet wrote:

"

stalkingjackal wrote:

Didn't diablo 2 have a death xp penalty as well?

If you're really intent on reaching 100 maybe don't run rippy maps/bosses with that character? Or if u run with a HH then maps will be a non-issue.

I personally don't care about xp past 90, but just saying. Pure breachstones/beachheads would be much safer to grind for those last few lvls.

d2 only had goldloss on death which could be circumvented by putting your gold in the stash. also lost all your equipped items which were retrieved upon clicking your corpse.

correct me if i am wrong.

you're wrong, there is -10% exp, you can recover some getting your coprse, but you're naked so you can die agan, exp recovery will no longer be possible and you can lose way more exp without recovering any.
https://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Experience

Thanks for the quick clarification. I didn't remember there was xp loss at all in d2 but i did make it to 100 once with a sorc something i have never done in this game.

Umm Diablo 2 didn't have level 100, only level 99.

thats why in d2 everyone had a second set of gear to get to the corpse ...

"

stalkingjackal wrote:

Didn't diablo 2 have a death xp penalty as well?

If you're really intent on reaching 100 maybe don't run rippy maps/bosses with that character? Or if u run with a HH then maps will be a non-issue.

I personally don't care about xp past 90, but just saying. Pure breachstones/beachheads would be much safer to grind for those last few lvls.

D4 has no death penalty. Guess blizzard realized that this shit has no place in a modern arpg.

"

dan166 wrote:

"

stalkingjackal wrote:

Didn't diablo 2 have a death xp penalty as well?

If you're really intent on reaching 100 maybe don't run rippy maps/bosses with that character? Or if u run with a HH then maps will be a non-issue.

I personally don't care about xp past 90, but just saying. Pure breachstones/beachheads would be much safer to grind for those last few lvls.

D4 has no death penalty. Guess blizzard realized that this shit has no place in a modern arpg.

I hate dying in D4. I hate dying in D4 at least as bad as I hate dying in PoE. So much for the probably false assertion by PoE apologists that claim the death penalty is necessary or people wouldn't care if they died.

The real reason for the death penalty is to make the level 100 chase goal.

"

Turtledove wrote:

The real reason for the death penalty is to make the level 100 chase goal.

Its not just that its a build deficiency highlighter, you can't have success if you don't have failure and the difference between a great build and an OK one on SC is frequently how much you die.

SC already has an immense glass cannon bias as it is, obviously not helped by the fact most 100's bypassed the grind with 5 way carries so said failure state doesn't apply to them.

I've always understood why players get frustrated by the death penalty but frankly that is its purpose, frustration > iteration > less frustration its a fairly simple cycle to encourage progress.

"

Draegnarrr wrote:

"

Turtledove wrote:

The real reason for the death penalty is to make the level 100 chase goal.

Its not just that its a build deficiency highlighter, you can't have success if you don't have failure and the difference between a great build and an OK one on SC is frequently how much you die.

SC already has an immense glass cannon bias as it is, obviously not helped by the fact most 100's bypassed the grind with 5 way carries so said failure state doesn't apply to them.

I've always understood why players get frustrated by the death penalty but frankly that is its purpose, frustration > iteration > less frustration its a fairly simple cycle to encourage progress.

If iteration > less frustration would have been equally achievable with majority of skills you decide to try, sure. In practice only minority of skills have strong enough scaling to leave space to fortify yourself against all kinds of BS you can encounter in cross-scaling monster mechanics.

I've said it 100 times and can say again: GGG should either even out dps scaling for different skills, or tame monster scaling when several league mechanics are combined on them, or (if keeping current state) make death penalty optional, with some rewards for playing with it enabled. It was the only reason why I stopped even trying new builds despite having a truckload of resources here, it only brings frustration > iteration > more frustration on another BS death in a split-second.

"

Echothesis wrote:

If iteration > less frustration would have been equally achievable with majority of skills you decide to try, sure. In practice only minority of skills have strong enough scaling to leave space to fortify yourself against all kinds of BS you can encounter in cross-scaling monster mechanics.

You could make this argument about bossing and i'd agree, but for T16's you can clear them comfortably and safely with anything, its going to take you twice as long to hit 100 with a garbo skill as a good one but its a long way from impossible.

If you want to run all content types and still get to 100 absolutely its not going to happen unless you have an overperformer, but even players on good skills don't usually do that they leave the bossing out until 100 if it matters to them.

I don't disagree with your last paragraph btw but that isn't actually a death penalty issue, everything you wrote there is still a major problem even if the death penalty was removed entirely. By that I mean the skill divide currently is vast as is the scale by which monsters can go from zero to hero.

In current state cross-scaled rare mob on T16 map can do more damage than pinncale boss, and without telegraph delays on its attacks (maybe even the opposite if soul eater or hasted). You could make the argument of "run T14 white maps until 100", and it would work, yes, but it is not proper game design in my opinion.