King of Bullshit: 10% death penalty

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jsuslak313 wrote:

Regarding no penalty being anti-rpg...historically every rpg has SOME kind of death penalty. Without one, there would simply be no reason to have defenses in the game at all. No matter what that penalty is, there HAS to be a penalty. And it has to be significant enough that the game makes players WANT to stay alive. Some games do this better than others, some games have certain infrastructure in place that allow for greater exploration of death penalties.
Unfortunately, PoE somewhat pigeonholed itself with its novel currency system into taking item loss off the table as an option. One could argue that portals fulfill this role, which is true to a degree, but if they remove the exp penalty I think they need to revisit the number of portals we are given because its too generous if that were the death penalty.

I don't know about you but if there was no death penalty I'd still build for plenty of defense because I don't enjoy constantly dying. Are you saying you wouldn't?

Honestly if someone wants to play the game by dying five times on every map, why would I care? Sounds exhausting, but to each their own, it doesn't affect me in the least. What are we actually afraid of here?

Currently, the XP Penalty is very prohibitive at higher levels. It forces us to play the speed-meta 1-button nuke-the-screen builds.

Further, the developers are forced to allow such builds, because any measure of challenge where we risk death would be largely avoided by players.

If we want a challenging game, we have to quit pretending that some regressive penalty left over from Diablo 2 can substitute for it.

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Khalixxa wrote:

Currently, the XP Penalty is very prohibitive at higher levels.

If by "prohibitive" you mean, "i can't pick mediocre builds that don't have at least one defensive layer and it isn't my fault that i go 100% delirium with it", yeah, it is prohibitive.

1mill dps is so criminally easy to get now and will literally carry you to T16s in which you can do all your grinding, leaving a butt load of passives completely towards defense.

You also haven't done any of the pinnacle bosses, so that "challenging game" you're talking about is what? Candy Crush?

Losing xp on death in the way ggg has done it doesn't really work with rpg mechanics. At its core arpgs and rpgs in general want players to explore and push limits.

Poe has two death penalties. The limited portals and a huge xp loss. Xp gets much harder to get at around 92.

Death and failure in rpgs tend to have minor effects. Think like durability loss on weapons and armor. Some devs are harsher with this stuff than others, some aren't.

The xp penalty in poe removes several maps of kills at higher levels, has no lore reason. It exists to make max level a chase goal before the company really figured out the endgame, and it feels stupid. It keeps many people from playing the game longer. It is a large part of why the playerbase dwindles so quickly every league. They get to where they are fine with the grind and then recoil when the punishment gets too severe.

The penatly outweighs the fun they are having. This is why the gitgud arguments are bad. They encourages a kind of player hostile design that isn't fun.

On the other hand, fun hostile design usually has some signaling before bad things occur. It builds anticipation and suspense. Poe is really bad at this in general.

In fact arpgs in genetal aren't that player hostile for good reasons. Arpgs have a really tight reward and punishment curve that doesnt really allow for kneecap players to much.

The death penalty reminds me of ds rpgs where walking around actively harms the party. It just sucks.

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satanttin wrote:

lmao level 100 wasn't meant to be reached. also u don't need to be level 100 to do whatever in this game.

When it is included in the league challenges then it is most absolutely meant to be reached. What planet are you playing from???

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RightHandofGod wrote:

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satanttin wrote:

lmao level 100 wasn't meant to be reached. also u don't need to be level 100 to do whatever in this game.

When it is included in the league challenges then it is most absolutely meant to be reached. What planet are you playing from???

??? No it doesn't you pick ANOTHER objective if you can't do level 100

LOL

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RightHandofGod wrote:

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satanttin wrote:

lmao level 100 wasn't meant to be reached. also u don't need to be level 100 to do whatever in this game.

When it is included in the league challenges then it is most absolutely meant to be reached. What planet are you playing from???

I assume that satanttin is referring to the game as originally designed and prior to general release. GGG assumed that 100 would not or extremely rarely ever be reached. They were surprised by the tenacity and ability of dedicated players to reach 100. It was originally much harder because map levels did not go up nearly so high as they do now.

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Turtledove wrote:

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RightHandofGod wrote:

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satanttin wrote:

lmao level 100 wasn't meant to be reached. also u don't need to be level 100 to do whatever in this game.

When it is included in the league challenges then it is most absolutely meant to be reached. What planet are you playing from???

I assume that satanttin is referring to the game as originally designed and prior to general release. GGG assumed that 100 would not or extremely rarely ever be reached. They were surprised by the tenacity and ability of dedicated players to reach 100. It was originally much harder because map levels did not go up nearly so high as they do now.

ding ding ding we have a winner xd

Generally speaking, there tends to be so much clutter on the screen that even watching the game in slow motion reveals very little information about what actually resulted in death.

On top of this, there has been no combat log for the entire decade of this game's existence. There isn't even an announcement about what dealt the killing blow, only "you have been slain".

There is no serious justification for regressive penalties, regardless of context, if the game doesn't even provide the bare minimum quality of feedback.

Death penalty and portals are there to teach players not to nosedive into every encounter without adjusting their playstyle/builds. I think it is actually on a pretty fair spot as it is right now. I wouldn't mind if they removed the penalty from standard though. Now if they should adjust something it should be xp groups in 5 way Legion. That is the true king of bullshit of this game. :) Standing still doing nothing should NEVER ever be the best way to gain xp.