King of Bullshit: 10% death penalty

If there were no difficulties the reward becomes meaningless.

I haven't seen anyone say there should be no death penalty. There are many different kinds of potential penalties. GGG prefers the experience point penalty to create the current level 100 chase goal.

Folks that want to chase the level 100 goal could do it. It really doesn't take a lot of skill. It takes patience. Run a bunch of beachheads. Or just run white maps and delve. Don't take any chances running anything challenging. You'll get there eventually. Just don't take any chances. Don't try anything out of your comfort zone. Just be bored and keep grinding and grinding.

they did the -15% exp penalty (closed beta) later 10% exp
without even thinking further into the future

i played a bit more grim dawn recently and there are many monsters placed around but i clearly can see what is attacking me so i can dodge it
and its never unjustified (for me at least) when i die
i tried one of the super bosses once
he wrecked me like 2 shots and i was done because my defense buffs were on cooldown (playing blademaster) he keeps up with my movement speed pretty good also and heals like 20% everytime i die to him (every boss heals after you die to him thats the penalty even for lvl 100)
such clutter like in poe never happend to me in GD

Common it is 2021 these pointless remove death penalty threads should not be a thing, lets raise the awareness. You don't like the core of the game go find anther one that fits YOUR playstyle. GGG has been pretty clear on their death penalty stance.

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I haven't seen anyone say there should be no death penalty.

Really? Because the chorus has been consistent - we don't want to be punished. Any penalty would punish those people therefore they don't want one.

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dan166 wrote:

Please is there a possibility to raise awareness that this should not be a thing in 2021 anymore?

I like when people bring up the year to make some sort of point. "Yes, we are much softer now than before, and deserves an easier game". Mentioning the year isn't a very good argument. Why was it an OK design before, but not now? What has changed?

Now, you mentioned "thrill" and "punishment". The focus of the death penalty is neither of those. To find the real reasons why we have a death penalty, you have to look at the proactive effects, rather than the reactive effects. Examples?

- The death penalty encourages you to balance your build regarding defenses versus offenses.
- The death penalty encourages you to make smart choices based on what content to run - and when.
- The death penalty encourages you to care about your character.
- The death penalty makes it hard for bad builds (i.e. Glass Cannon builds) to succeed, which again gives value to a lot of choices.

Is the penalty perfect? Hardly. Could it be lowered? Sure. Could the add some kind of corpse-running mechanic? Absolutely. I don't think they will, though, and that's perfectly fine, even though it's "2021".

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satanttin wrote:

lmao level 100 wasn't meant to be reached. also u don't need to be level 100 to do whatever in this game.

What an absolutely big brain comment.

"This level that is reachable in the game was never meant to be reached".

Ever heard of an old, shitty (but damn did I love it) MMO called Tibia?
When you died in Tibia, unless you had one of very few specific special items on, you always lost your main inventory and had a chance to lose each and every piece of your equipment upon death.

This wasn't an easy to gear up game either, by no means at all. And in there, the 20% exp penalty was global, not local, so you can bet your damn ass that if you died you could see yourself going back 1 or more levels.

Wanna know how this ruined the game for everyone who played?

One day, I was minding my business in town, safely fishing in a lake, saving material to go on a hunt later. A friend of mine messaged me, talking about how he planned on farming minotaurs and asking where I was. I was quite a ways away, and there were no portals in the game, but minos were a much better farm than the trolls I had in mind, and he offered to cover sustain costs so hell yeah I was up for a travel. Then I set off...

Few minutes after leaving town, almost out of the surrounding swamps, I see a dead body. I stop and check; no loot on the corpse, so either he was killed by a player or he had already been looted; corpse image looked old-ish, probably about 10 minutes old. I start walking with arrow keys instead of mouse and open my bag of runes: if I need to cast a spell, don't want it being sounded out in the chat, need to keep silent, assassins might be nearby. A short while later, another dead body. This one is fresh, killed at most a minute ago, no loot. I leave the road, hug the trees, throw a pebble on the ground and start moving it 3 squares ahead of me. Suddenly, out of the corner of the screen, I see a damage number go up. I instantly throw a Chameleon Rune on the pebble, disguising myself. From that position I watch two players finishing off a poor traveler just like me. After a short while they move down the road and I, heart in my throat, run to the desert to meet my friend.

You know what I take away from that? Punishment is fun. Punishment motivates. The only reason I have a feeling of glee when I am playing my Ball Lightning character and I jump away with flame dash to avoid Izaro's shotgunning green balls of death is because I know that if I had pressed that button a second later or in a direction 10 degrees less, I would have lost my time, my lab run and 10% of my exp. Denying the game the victory of punishing me is fun. There is a reason games like Dark Souls become entirely meaningless with cheats.

Your issue seems to be much more with the "dodge or die" philosophy that apparently has become the only challenge GGG can create in a battle than with the punishment that occurs when you do die.

TL;DR: there is no fun without stakes, if the endgame is balanced like dogshit the balance should be addressed, not the punishment for when the imbalance gets you killed.

Want to know the irony of the Experience Penalty and the people who continue to complain about it as if it is the only thing between them and this envious level 100 "Accomplishment"? Even if they were to remove the Experience Penalty next league not a single one of you complaining about it as if its stopping you from reaching this goal will STILL ever see it... Want to know why? Because its not even half the battle to 100. If you struggle to just reach level 90 with the Penalty I can assure you once you reach the other experience penalty that kicks in at level 95 and especially beyond ALL of you will be right back to these forums asking for THAT experience Penalty to also be removed as well once you come to the realization that its still going to take you countless hours of endless grinding in order to see each level. So there goes over half of you with your complaint because "You dont have the time to invest like no lifers" because you still have to no life to get to 100 even if there is no -10%.. Or at the very least play consistently, on a well made build, and very calculated as to the maps you run in order to still get exp with the least amount of risk. In other words you would STILL have to put in effort..

And the problem also has nothing to do with the experience penalty but, rather people put together sub-par builds and expect to get the same out of them as everyone else investing and putting effort into theirs. Most of you in this thread complaining also coincidently have your profiles private because of course any kind of actual helpful advice to improve your builds and have less issues with these "Deaths" is something you do not wish to have you just want the goal posts moved to suit you instead. And the ones of you who do not have private profiles clearly show the issue with these "Random Unexplained Deaths" and this isn't even considering how you roll your maps to which im quite sure with all this talk of "Alc and Go" there are plenty that the rest of us having no issue with the penalty would be reconsidering if not flat out rejecting because we take the penalty into account and plan as well as play around it. As should all of you as well..

And setting goals and overcoming the obstacles that come along with trying to achieve those goals is what makes achieving those goals worth it in the end. Without the Obstacles what's the point? Adapt and Overcome. If you REALLY want this level 100 so badly why not instead roll your maps much easier like people do in HC? Why not invest a bit more in defenses to help eliminate those random one shots? Why not try to at least attempt to do something about it yourself with the tools and mechanics given in game rather than complain about something TONS of people achieve every single league within the first couple days that you have 3 months to sort out? The answer is you dont really want it and removing the Penalty is never going to change that because the issue isn't the penalty the issue is YOU the player and your defeatist mentality of wishing the goal posts would simply be moved just a little bit more than they have already been moved over time so you can finally achieve a meaningless feat by the time you get there because its a pointless endeavor if all risk is remove to achieving it...

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Peenk wrote:

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satanttin wrote:

lmao level 100 wasn't meant to be reached. also u don't need to be level 100 to do whatever in this game.

What an absolutely big brain comment.

"This level that is reachable in the game was never meant to be reached".

look at delve they reached the limit so ggg had to reach the depth. but whatever man