King of Bullshit: 10% death penalty

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Turtledove wrote:

I'm not saying you need to like the death penalty. I don't like it myself. I think that the game would be better without it. I know 3 people that stopped playing PoE because of it. So I think it hurts retention.

Explain how people reaching 100 without any effort would improve retention.

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Johny_Snow wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

I'm not saying you need to like the death penalty. I don't like it myself. I think that the game would be better without it. I know 3 people that stopped playing PoE because of it. So I think it hurts retention.

Explain how people reaching 100 without any effort would improve retention.

Explain how you making irrelevant assertions has anything to do with me.

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Johny_Snow wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

I'm not saying you need to like the death penalty. I don't like it myself. I think that the game would be better without it. I know 3 people that stopped playing PoE because of it. So I think it hurts retention.

Explain how people reaching 100 without any effort would improve retention.

People quit often has nothing to do with reaching 100. Poeple quite due to losing progress that took hours, even days, & lost motivation.

Time is the most previous things the older you get.


As far as retention., Firtsly no onbe said it should be easy. 2nd, I think there are MORE retention if people can work towards 100 instead of quiting at level 93 for instance.

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vio wrote:

the more punishing the consequences for failing, the higher the feeling of achievement.

but yes, this also means that alot of players need to play just for fun for some good players to feel superior.

that's the principle of capitalism: a carrot dangling in front of your nose to make you do "things".

pro tip: just go faster!

when the "achievment" is just farming low balls maps fast to never die and ez grind, it's not really a good thing.
If you want to do end game content, you're gonna die a lot to one shot or stupid mechanics.
If you want to level up, just keep farming low balls map and then it's easy leveling.

What kind of "achievment" is this ?

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kiadaw wrote:

What is ignoring is, when ever someone mentiond negative about detah penalty. You have the usual stawsman "So you think you shouldn't be punish for dying?"

Literally no one say that. Every action game out theer has penalty on death, almost none has experience lost! Many of these games are more hardcore & harder than poE.

You can disagree with the xp lost on death or not, but stop misrepresent others



There is a reason why Gamers hatred losing progress, even worse when that progress can be hours or even days.

A penalty need to be 2 things. Making sure gamers what to aviod, so it should hurt.

But not to the point of frustration or stress, or disencourging you to do certain contents.

§rd but almost as critical, is gamers can learn and become better prepare, but this is something often deprive off.

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that's a big point my friend.
In poe, you have no battle log, nothing (hi last epoch !)
In most case, you don't understand how you die, what killed you or even what types of damages killed you.
Worse, you can die to offscreen shits, random crits, bad rng (ailments stack, shotgun mobs on clicking box, sirus invisible laser etc...)
And nothing in the game tells you what killed you.

That's why it's so frustrating, you spend hours to grind xp, then die to god know what and that's it.

In most action games, you know why you died, you took a big hit, you failed a parry, a dodge, you didn't know a specific pattern and how to manage it.
In poe, it's just shit everywhere on the screen, a sudden 15fps lag, and bam, it's over, 0.001 sec to react or u die lol.
There is instance crash, freezes, RNG too.
It happens a lot that a yellow mob with crit aura and increase phys damage makes all white mobs suddenly chain crit and BOOM U DED.

That's why it's frustrating people and the penalty should be removed.

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People quit often has nothing to do with reaching 100.

True

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Poeple quite due to losing progress that took hours, even days, & lost motivation.

False. You just said they often quit for reasons other than leveling.

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Time is the most previous things the older you get.

Completely depends on the person. Plenty of single guys and gals around.

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As far as retention., Firtsly no onbe said it should be easy.

The whole concept of wanting the penalty to disappear is to make leveling easier.

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2nd, I think there are MORE retention if people can work towards 100 instead of quiting at level 93 for instance.

People will still quit because of other reasons, as you said. Besides, if something is made easier, people quit earlier. Think of normal games and how they take less time to beat on easy than on hard.

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Johny_Snow wrote:

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People quit often has nothing to do with reaching 100.

True

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Poeple quite due to losing progress that took hours, even days, & lost motivation.

False. You just said they often quit for reasons other than leveling.

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Time is the most previous things the older you get.

Completely depends on the person. Plenty of single guys and gals around.

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As far as retention., Firtsly no onbe said it should be easy.

The whole concept of wanting the penalty to disappear is to make leveling easier.

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2nd, I think there are MORE retention if people can work towards 100 instead of quiting at level 93 for instance.

People will still quit because of other reasons, as you said. Besides, if something is made easier, people quit earlier. Think of normal games and how they take less time to beat on easy than on hard.

People usually quit for 2 reason :

- they are very strong player that nolife for weeks then did all end game or even 40/40 then quit because they have basically cleaned the content

OR

- they quit on frustration, shitty loots, very hard end game with many stupid one shots, nolife grinding and a lot of knowledge is not easy to acquire and most of players just stop playing before this point. And yes, xp penalty is one part of the frustration that player have to deal with.

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Domah wrote:

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Johny_Snow wrote:

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People quit often has nothing to do with reaching 100.

True

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Poeple quite due to losing progress that took hours, even days, & lost motivation.

False. You just said they often quit for reasons other than leveling.

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Time is the most previous things the older you get.

Completely depends on the person. Plenty of single guys and gals around.

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As far as retention., Firtsly no onbe said it should be easy.

The whole concept of wanting the penalty to disappear is to make leveling easier.

"

2nd, I think there are MORE retention if people can work towards 100 instead of quiting at level 93 for instance.

People will still quit because of other reasons, as you said. Besides, if something is made easier, people quit earlier. Think of normal games and how they take less time to beat on easy than on hard.

People usually quit for 2 reason :

- they are very strong player that nolife for weeks then did all end game or even 40/40 then quit because they have basically cleaned the content

OR

- they quit on frustration, shitty loots, very hard end game with many stupid one shots, nolife grinding and a lot of knowledge is not easy to acquire and most of players just stop playing before this point. And yes, xp penalty is one part of the frustration that player have to deal with.

Two extremes are never the right answer. Plenty of space inbetween

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Johny_Snow wrote:

Two extremes are never the right answer. Plenty of space inbetween

there are never right answers for you
because everything you dont like you tend to trashtalk it down

Pathetic

Suppose someone has real life matters to attend to and can't play. He can't get into the no-life group for obvious reasons but this doesn't mean he is frustrated with the game or the league. He does not fall into either group.

Or what I did with Blight. I played Legion till the end and got burned out pretty bad. I tried Blight but it didn't feel good, I needed a rest. I had time to no-life but had no motivation, I did not dislike the league or the game. So once again I did not fall into those 2 groups.

Or how about what GGG did. They thought that even if they make the best league ever they would get less players on average because of Cyberpunk and its hype. The people who'd play Cyberpunk could no-life, they could even like the league but they wouldn't play PoE. They obviously don't fall into either group.

I can go on like this. You better stand down and listen. The obvious needs to be explained to some people, unfortunately.