Your 2021 PoE end game ladies and gentlemen.

"
innervation wrote:
Put the good items behind hard to achieve content. In the game.


Don't.

I am not arguing with you that the system of TFT Harvest crafting is ideal, or good, or even just okayish. It isn't. It's crap. But one thing that Harvest does right is that good items are not locked behind hard content.

Locking the good stuff behind hard content has two effects. First, only those able to beat the hard content already anyways get to the good stuff. Which isn't great, because it reaffirms the system of wealth accumulation with a few.

Second, it disincentivizes running hard content unless you are 100% sure you can beat it. For example, right now, you should not be running Maven unless you know you can beat her. In this game, content isn't free, it costs. And it costs more the more the potential rewards are. Cortex isn't expensive because it is rare. It is expensive because the drops are good. And because the drops are good, you only run it when you know you can beat it. And because of that, less people get to experience that content. Which isn't good.

Let the hard content be there for challenge, not for rewards. Even though I can run the hard content (at least in Standard league), and can profit from it (by chaining Uber Elders for example), I don't think it is a good system. It isn't.

As for Harvest, there has to be a better solution than TFT.


"
innervation wrote:
They're talking about emulating the large global financial institutions in terms of fraud prevention and detection. For a video game trade. Hello? What?


That is what happens if you blindly and stubbornly insist that your game has to revolve around economy, while at the same time, schizophrenically, making the trading system in the game as inefficient as possible. I don't think it will get better, unless GGG fundamentally rethinks some of their core development principles.
Remove Horticrafting station storage limit.
"
theD4nk0wl wrote:

The stream of salt over rolling something that doesn't fit someone's personal build in trade league, and having it account bound would be a lot worse than the complaints and arguments over harvest itself currently, short sighted.


Now I understood you. But which is worse? IMHO I don't think complaints of "mah item rolled differenct can't trade" would be worse than the state we have now.

Because as I said, a true casual (not a noob) not even understand the crafting. For them if they roll something different of their build they'll just vendor and move on.

But I'm assuming things here. Nobody does know for sure how much knowledge a casual have. As an example, I consider myself a casual player, I just play a few hours a day, but I have a good amount of game knowledge. I don't think definitions will ever match.

Might not be the best way, but to counter the monster TFT and Harvest abuse created it's better to make account bound and give more access to Harvest than remove it completely.
"There's no thing like random one-shots in this game. You only die because you take 353,456,237 hits in 0.2 seconds."

"The best items in the game should not be crafted, they should be TRADED." - Cent, GGG
Yeah they're not going to make items bound sorry it's an economy base game LOL got to be delusional if you think they will. They're going to tune harvest that's it.

Soul bound LOL hahahahah core point of poe is the economy
IGN: I_NO
Corgi Squad
Walrus Squad
- you seem to stack Armour. dont. Armour is a shit mechanic that does nothing good to you. - Never ever listen to this post ever.
"
I_NO wrote:
Yeah they're not going to make items bound sorry it's an economy base game LOL got to be delusional if you think they will. They're going to tune harvest that's it.

Soul bound LOL hahahahah core point of poe is the economy


I was wanting to get to that point but somehow ended up in a heated debate over the term "casual" ....
Last edited by theD4nk0wl on Feb 22, 2021, 4:07:12 PM
Man then you got that one guy saying how about we make it standard only LOL you guys are day dreaming or something haha then the whole LETS JUST MAKE IT SSF!

Some wild imaginations here.
IGN: I_NO
Corgi Squad
Walrus Squad
- you seem to stack Armour. dont. Armour is a shit mechanic that does nothing good to you. - Never ever listen to this post ever.
Last edited by I_NO on Feb 22, 2021, 4:14:40 PM
"
I_NO wrote:
Man then you got that one guy saying how about we make it standard only LOL you guys are day dreaming or something haha then the whole LETS JUST MAKE IT SSF!

Some wild imaginations here.


They are called suggestions. From people who care about this game.

Thanks for promoting the ideas, though.
Remove Horticrafting station storage limit.
"
Char1983 wrote:
"
innervation wrote:
Put the good items behind hard to achieve content. In the game.


Don't.



Oh but they must. I shouldn't have said 'good' though, what I meant was 'absolute best'.

As 'sidtherat' said in another post on this feedback forum, here's what happens with the status quo power level of Harvest:

"you run low-end content (T11 atoll, even alch/go is no-risk endeavour) to craft uber weapons/gear you dont need to run low level content. and the endgame you dont have to touch because you already have everything you need.. 'why run, whats the point?'"

And honestly, he overstated it. You don't even have to run these maps at T11. It breaks common sense gear progression and flips it on its head.

I have a new approach to offer: Harvest crafting an item soulbinds Harvest crafting the item to your account. That is to say, once you Harvest craft on a certain 1h axe, you are now the only person who can Harvest craft on it.

You could still sell your project once it is 'done' (or before). You could still buy and sell individual crafts. But this would make you bring an item to the table that is much closer to 'finished' than what we currently have, which is either white base start or alt spam start.

Of course there are a lot of other ideas I've seen floating that seem solid.

Make Harvest Crafted a tag like Synthesized or Influenced.

Remove the top tier of rolls as possibilities, or gate them behind T19 maps.

Restrict the top end crafts like add an influence, fracture an item, synth an item, exalt/anul, exalt slam, etc to standard or SSF.

Cap the amount of times an item can be Harvest crafted.

Not all of them simultaneously of course. And the good news being the more your solution truly hits the root issue - this current implementation of Harvest and its natural black market outgrowth - the more Harvest can be buffed on the back end to reward the ethical use cases like 'crafting a good item for yourself over time'. Or, you know, enjoying the non-item crafts. Whether that buff comes in accessability via frequency, targetability, or rare outcome opportunity I don't really care.


Last edited by innervation on Feb 22, 2021, 4:27:08 PM
"
Char1983 wrote:


They are called suggestions.


On a forum open to discussion. Some are dumb, some aren't.

I've rarely sided with I.No over the years but Harvest shits the game up in a lot of ways, and most of what I've read come across as "dumb" suggestions. It's all a matter of opinion though right? Feel free to think account bound items or, well, literally anything other than removing some of the stronger crafts, are in fact not dumb suggestions.

But I think I've seen I.no basically say the same thing, the craft options need tuned, and I agree entirely.
"
theD4nk0wl wrote:
"
Char1983 wrote:


They are called suggestions.


On a forum open to discussion. Some are dumb, some aren't.

I've rarely sided with I.No over the years but Harvest shits the game up in a lot of ways, and most of what I've read come across as "dumb" suggestions. It's all a matter of opinion though right? Feel free to think account bound items or, well, literally anything other than removing some of the stronger crafts, are in fact not dumb suggestions.

But I think I've seen I.no basically say the same thing, the craft options need tuned, and I agree entirely.


Tuning options.. there are 4 main craft types:

Deterministic: remove and/or add something.
Almost deterministic: reroll suffix/prefix, remove non-something

Polishing: swap resists, enchants, socket manipulation, divines

Almost-random: reforges, lucky reforges, similar/unsimilar rerolls

Misc: currency swaps and upgrades, div card lotteries etc.



Or in short:

Exalts
Crafting bench
Chaos spam
Fun stuff but you filter it out sooner than later


We all know it is the 'exalts' part that is the problem. And we all know that without it harvest kinda has no place. We have essences for reforges and crafting bench for resists.

You can limit crafts to T3 but that doesnt help with foolproof explody chest frafting or creating dozens upon dozens of assmark rings.

If you tone down the good parts all you are left is UI for essences. And an Oshabi fight that noone likes.
"
sidtherat wrote:

Or in short:

Exalts
Crafting bench
Chaos spam
Fun stuff but you filter it out sooner than later


We all know it is the 'exalts' part that is the problem. And we all know that without it harvest kinda has no place. We have essences for reforges and crafting bench for resists.

You can limit crafts to T3 but that doesnt help with foolproof explody chest frafting or creating dozens upon dozens of assmark rings.

If you tone down the good parts all you are left is UI for essences. And an Oshabi fight that noone likes.


I said in another post somewhere, all you have to do is remove the augment craft to bring it in line.

How would, even within harvest, but specifically with fossils like I do with my bases already to prep options going into harvests, there be no place for harvest? The remove/add option is every bit as powerful as augment. Without the determinism of augment into remove/add you'd need a better rolled item, returning value to the mid tier market. Meanwhile Harvest remains an incredibly valuable commodity because of remove/add alone.

There would also still be all the nice treats like synth an item, fracture, add influence. The ones that really make it shine for things like SSF.

The rarity of harvest seems in line (mostly). The only other thing that obviously needs to be done would be making the crafts seal-able bestiary style.

Lastly, we get rid of augment rather than remove/add because remove/add is the less deterministic of the two. You might have the right mods, but you could be in for an investment trying to hit all t1. This applies to most of the items being crafted, including the crazy influence items. Can't slap on power charge on critical to any crusader chest with an open suffix once you take away augment, but you could still try to hit it with remove/add at a gamble.
Last edited by theD4nk0wl on Feb 22, 2021, 5:00:02 PM

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