Had to Cancel My Diablo 3 Pre-Order

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:


Sometimes it's really hard not to be offended by you, but I know, or at least like to believe, you mean well, despite the accusations and assertions. Your entire second last paragraph is nothing but an insult, and is duly ignored. Especially the bit about me being unable to argue the point of D3 vs PoE anymore. Although I will concede my original argument is sort of hard to top. :)

So I will answer, despite a distinct uncertainty whether or not it'll have any real positive outcome. I think you should re-read your posts before hitting submit, by the way. They're sometimes very hard to follow.


My answer:

Plenty of companies accept a measure of 'thrown away money,' particularly those that know their profits will more than make up for it. Acceptable losses are a game of balance -- in Blizzard's case, the query may have arose: if we don't get PvP in before release, how much money are we losing? Probably less than if I we don't get a working skill rune system, Auction House, etc. So PvP is shuffled further down the list of priorities, and as I've said, I think in terms of a Diablo game, that is slacking. Any lost profit from the missing PvP must have been decided as worth the risk.

The Sixth class was announced a while ago, but the implementation of traps has been the noted roadblock. That's right there in the beta manifesto too. I don't care how long ago they announced it or felt it was almost done: they've given a viable explanation for why it isn't out yet.

Regarding team size: we can say that this point that Path of Exile's first and second acts are somewhat comparable to Diablo II's. Forget Diablo 3 -- it's a blockbuster with a small army working on it. It'd be impossible to scale that down to compare it to GGG's eighteen employees. So, we work with the following information:

Spoiler

Writing credits
Stieg Hedlund (story and dialogue) &
Matthew Householder (story and dialogue) (as Matt Householder) &
Phil Shenk (story and dialogue) &
Kurt Beaver (story and dialogue) &
Bob Vieira (story and dialogue)


Produced by
Jeremy Heath-Smith .... producer (as Jeremy H. Smith)
Matthew Householder .... senior producer (as Matt Householder)
Michael Huang .... technical producer
Mark E. Kern .... producer (as Mark Kern)
Michael Morhaime .... executive producer (as Mike Morhaime)
Bill Roper .... senior producer
Kenneth Williams .... producer

Original Music by
Matt Uelmen

Art Department
Alan Ackerman .... background artist
Cheeming Boey .... character artist
Ben Boos .... background artist
David Brevik .... project and design lead
Evan Carroll .... character artist
Michael Dashow .... character artist
David Glenn .... background artist
Ben Haas .... character artist
Stieg Hedlund .... designer
Kelly Johnson .... character artist
John Kubasco .... character artist (as John 'The Kid' Kubasco)
Alex Munn .... background artist
Michio Okamura .... character artist
Kris Renkewitz .... character artist
Anthony Rivero .... character artist
Chris Root .... character artist
Erich Schaefer .... project and design lead
Max Schaefer .... project and design lead
Eric Sexton .... character artist
Phil Shenk .... lead character artist
Bob Steele .... character artist
Mark Sutherland .... background artist
Marc Tattersall .... background artist
Patrick Tougas .... character artist
Fredrick Vaught .... background artist

Sound Department
Tracy W. Bush .... cinematic sound designer
Tracy W. Bush .... sound
Joseph Lawrence .... additional sound effects
Scott Petersen .... sound designer
Jonathan Stone .... sound designer
Matt Uelmen .... sound designer

Visual Effects by
John G. Chalfant .... cinematic artist (as John Chalfant)

Costume and Wardrobe Department
George Sartiano .... specialty costumes (uncredited)

Other crew
Jessica Drossin .... creative manager
Geoff Fraizer .... web team
Joshua Kurtz .... game tester
Erik Larsen .... crew
Eric Sexton .... additional game designer

(cited from IMDB.com)


That team created D2 in 4 years, and with the profits made from D1, which were not inconsiderable. For a self-and-privately funded team such as GGG to achieve something similar and in turn push certain boundaries in 5-6 years is very much an achievement. I still cannot see this as 'slacking off.'



We can argue how PoE is big compared to D3.. but after playing both.. i think there is nothing to compare. D3 is much bigger in every aspect. And I am not talking about length of one act.. number and quality of assets, environment variety, animations, sounds, effects, items, monsters..just everything. So their work can be hardly compared to work made by blizzard team..but it's perfectly okey... They are small team..very talented but still small one.

Look..it's not like I hate PoE or something... I am following this game for 19 months already. I was and still I am very passionate about this game.. To get into beta test.. I created short CGI animation for art contest (which I won in one category) in very short time ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9SUUq-jOhQ ). I really love this game..and I really love GGG's work.. But I also see many shortcomings compared to D3 for example.. so just to make it clear.

Anyway, what is the viable explanation? They were talking about traps and totem support gems for year and half if not more...Look..I am not saying it's not okey they pushed whole 6th class back for several months or something like that. I am perfectly fine with it because I know polish is good..and I am fine they will take their time. But blizzard is providing viable explanation too.. so why you will accept one but not accept explanation from blizzard? I say..just fanboy/hater perspective.. am I wrong??
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ManiaCCC wrote:

We can argue how PoE is big compared to D3.. but after playing both.. i think there is nothing to compare. D3 is much bigger in every aspect. And I am not talking about length of one act.. number and quality of assets, environment variety, animations, sounds, effects, items, monsters..just everything. So their work can be hardly compared to work made by blizzard team..but it's perfectly okey... They are small team..very talented but still small one.

Look..it's not like I hate PoE or something... I am following this game for 19 months already. I was and still I am very passionate about this game.. To get into beta test.. I created short CGI animation for art contest (which I won in one category) in very short time ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9SUUq-jOhQ ). I really love this game..and I really love GGG's work.. But I also see many shortcomings compared to D3 for example.. so just to make it clear.

Anyway, what is the viable explanation? They were talking about traps and totem support gems for year and half if not more...Look..I am not saying it's not okey they pushed whole 6th class back for several months or something like that. I am perfectly fine with it because I know polish is good..and I am fine they will take their time. But blizzard is providing viable explanation too.. so why you will accept one but not accept explanation from blizzard? I say..just fanboy/hater perspective.. am I wrong??


Firstly, I didn't say anything about PoE compared to D3, at least not here and not in terms of scale. I compared the first two acts of PoE to the first two acts of D2. It's still not really that viable -- D2 had far more of everything, act for act, but it's definitely an easier and more fair comparison than PoE to D3 in any shape or form.

Any shortcomings we perceive in PoE, and there are many (I don't recall saying otherwise -- and this is why I very much disagree with your assessment of me as a 'fanboy'), can be addressed in future patches more readily and carefully than with retail releases; PoE is going from closed beta to open beta soon enough, which means it's still not ready for a distinct release. Shortcomings are thus dynamically treated -- have you looked at the brief patch notes for the forthcoming patch? Sure, many things yet to be addressed, but the focus on making monster behaviour much more interesting is absolutely a result of a lot of feedback.

Shortcomings perceived in other games are less easily tackled, mainly because 'betas' are rarely as accessible as GGG have allowed PoE's to become. Often-times we perceive the shortcomings in other games after release, which of course can be fixed but hey, they've already got your money, there's no guarantee of that.

So really, while PoE is riddled with problems at the moment, I see each successive patch as an active attempt to reduce the number of those problems. I don't think it'll be an easy process, but I do think it's working.

As for Blizzard's explanations for certain things being removed or omitted, such as the missing PvP and the tragically simplified rune skill system, these are much harder to swallow when the game has had so much time to be developed and so many people working on it.

I have discussed this elsewhere and won't repeat myself here.

A fanboy, to address finally your decision to call me such, cannot see the flaws in that of which he is a fan. Fanboys gush, rant, rave, and cannot accept detraction or criticism of their fandom and their favourite thing. I have provided a considerable if not necessarily substantial amount of critical analysis of Path of Exile in many of my posts, and indeed my latest points out what I feel to be the game's biggest trap, its most devious scheme.

A hater is the flipside of the coin, someone who has decided that whatever they don't like simply cannot be good, cannot have any worth. I have said repeatedly that Diablo 3 is going to be a great game, a real success, and that it has more than a lot going for it. I played the beta to death quite a while ago and really enjoyed it. Certain changes along the way have lessened my love for it, but in no way can I say I hate it. I have other emotions, but hate isn't one of them.

'Fanboy' and 'Hater' are terms that arose from an Internet too young for my concerns, one that cannot deliver balanced argument and arrive at congenial disagreement. One that I was sort of hoping I wouldn't have to deal with much here. And, to the community's great credit, I haven't had to break things down like this very often.

I think I have sufficiently shown I am neither a fanboy nor a hater, so please do not call me either again.
If I like a game, it'll either be amazing later or awful forever. There's no in-between.

I am Path of Exile's biggest whale. Period.
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xxnoob wrote:
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xxsjxx1 wrote:

I'm just not impressed, I bet the story is really good...


Blizzard's formula for story writing: The good guys are corrupted by an ancient evil and become the main bosses.

Diablo in D3 looks like a woman, Leah is Diablo.


And we've known this for like, what, over a year, now? Epic! =^[.]^=
=^[.]^= basic (happy/amused) cheetahmoticon: Whiskers/eye/tear-streak/nose/tear-streak/eye/
whiskers =@[.]@= boggled / =>[.]<= annoyed or angry / ='[.]'= concerned / =0[.]o= confuzzled /
=-[.]-= sad or sleepy / =*[.]*= dazzled / =^[.]~= wink / =~[.]^= naughty wink / =9[.]9= rolleyes #FourYearLie
Well listening to the community for companies like GGG, Crate, Runic is an one way road, but to be fair, Blizzard is making changes by the community feedback, a great example is the latest animations addition for Monk to actualy use a weapon instead of always punching/kicking.

Still different sizes in companies produces different behaviour, that isnt a bad thing though.
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Raycheetah wrote:
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xxnoob wrote:
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xxsjxx1 wrote:

I'm just not impressed, I bet the story is really good...


Blizzard's formula for story writing: The good guys are corrupted by an ancient evil and become the main bosses.

Diablo in D3 looks like a woman, Leah is Diablo.


And we've known this for like, what, over a year, now? Epic! =^[.]^=


Saying Leah is diablo is a pretty uninformed misconception.

What I do think could be true is that leah has a part of diablo's essence inside her, and will somehow act as a gateway for diablo to come back to the mortal realm.

Also, that's just story writing in general really.
Corruption is an insanely common theme, and also a very interesting one.

The Bias once again appears in you guys' posts.
''Stand amongst the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters.
The silence is your answer.''

IGN: Vaeralyse
Last edited by Tagek#6585 on May 4, 2012, 12:31:33 PM
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Tagek wrote:

Saying Leah is diablo is a pretty uninformed misconception.

What I do think could be true is that leah has a part of diablo's essence inside her, and will somehow act as a gateway for diablo to come back to the mortal realm.

Also, that's just story writing in general really.
Corruption is an insanely common theme, and also a very interesting one.

The Bias once again appears in you guys' posts.


It's an insanely common theme in Blizzard games. There are no heroes, only good guys waiting to be corrupted. Unless it's Thrall, Thrall is the untouchable orc, nothing can corrupt him for he is Orcsus.

I guess it was inevitable, I mean this is the WoW peoples we're talking about, if Diablo already used this whole good guys getting corrupted device to make new villains, the freakin' WoW team just had to do it, it's their trademark, literally. The Old Gods are overused and annoying at this point.
Last edited by xxnoob#7582 on May 4, 2012, 12:42:54 PM
Yes in blizzard games, but also in fiction in general.
As I said, it's pretty much the most interesting theme.
There are also plenty of heroes, but I'm sure you knew how ignorant that part was when you wrote it.
''Stand amongst the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters.
The silence is your answer.''

IGN: Vaeralyse
Last edited by Tagek#6585 on May 4, 2012, 12:42:16 PM
I don't think they will be able to recapture the feeling that D1 gave. I believe D1 was the only ARPG that I ever engaged me from a story perspective. It was so dark and ominous from start to finish. If I could change one thing about D3 it would be the atmosphere. If I could change more than one thing it would be everything else, lol.
Sounds to me like you're looking for a survival horror rpg, not an 'action' rpg.

I understand what you mean, but D1 and D2-3 aren't really in the same genre I feel.
''Stand amongst the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters.
The silence is your answer.''

IGN: Vaeralyse
Last edited by Tagek#6585 on May 4, 2012, 12:50:35 PM
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Tagek wrote:
Sounds to me like you're looking for a survival horror rpg, not an 'action' rpg.

I understand what you mean, but D1 and D2-3 aren't really in the same genre I feel.


Oh yeah. I was just saying the D1 atmosphere was great. D2 lost a little bit of this but still did ok. D3 throws the atmosphere away imo. As far as gameplay itself D3 feels really good, its just all of the mechanics and game systems that I dislike personally.

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