The giant Elephant in the room currently (Expros take on meta)

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zoneslash wrote:

Does anyone know if it's possible to beat Kitava with a marauder character?

I hear from a pro player that it is impossible so we must rest that case.

I've found nothing in PoE even close to as exciting or new as the experience the first time a player fights The Butcher, Andariel, or Duriel.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I suppose maybe elephants do forget... but in the case of this elephant, Horton Hears a Who else puts atmosphere and experience and excitement high up in terms of their ARPGS. I know I do, and I know I'm not the vocal minority. I rest my case.

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esostaks wrote:

...
At the end of the day the endgame of any ARPG is grinding. ...

Thanks to... Diablo?

It didn't have to be like that, but that's sort of a thing Blizzard invented. Or, perfected. Or, unleashed... Basically, it's gamer-crack. :)

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SadDropUser wrote:

I've found nothing in PoE even close to as exciting or new as the experience the first time a player fights The Butcher, Andariel, or Duriel.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I suppose maybe elephants do forget... but in the case of this elephant, Horton Hears a Who else puts atmosphere and experience and excitement high up in terms of their ARPGS. I know I do, and I know I'm not the vocal minority. I rest my case.

You'd be correct for Diablo 1&2.

For Dialbo 3... They were so very determined to make "Boss Runs" a thing of the past that they ended up making them too "watered down." It wasn't just the "loot," it was the expectation and build-up.

One thing to note: Balance and Builds - Diablo doesn't have the terrifying complexity in terms of character/class/tool "building" for players that PoE does. For example, it's entirely possible to fail so very terribly at PoE that the character ends up never, ever, being able to progress. It can become a broken, mewling, thing that dies repeatedly as soon as the scene loads... Diablo is much more forgiving in that respect.

That means that it's easier to reward the player for "good play" in Diablo games. It's easier for a player to understand what is needed to achieve a goal and then to actually achieve it. In PoE, there are fifty-eleven ways to insta-gimp a character build... In Diablo? No so much.

Both games, though, have relative complexity and reward in their "end game" for players who want to pursue that.

Atmosphere: Diablo's "atmosphere" is definitely more pronounced and more dramatic than PoE's. In PoE, "monsters" are just part of the landscape for the most part. In Diablo, the game's story points to them as being the result of some "cause" the game draws the player into solving.

PoE:

"Go here and get the thing."
"But, there are monsters!"
"Huh? What? Oh, yeah. Whatever. Just go get the thing, will ya?"

Diablo:

"We must discover the thing. Go find the thing."
"But, there are monsters!"
"OH MY GOSH! MONSTERS! It must be the thing that is causing this! This is horrifying! We must fight the thing, whatever it is. Look at all those monsters! It's proof the thing is evil! Now, go, and be brave! Be brave fighting those hideous things so you can find the thing!"


Anyone know the best, most well-done, bit of background and setting development in the whole game of PoE? And, that's practically pushed into the background and could even be missed by the player? And, one that illustrates a meaningful difference between PoE and Diablo?

https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Etchings_on_Wood

That's it. Every time I run through the campaign, I click on each one just to hear the story. It's beautifully done. It's well written. It's voice-acted wonderfully. And, it's thematic and sets the tone for the area. But, it's practically left on the cutting-room floor and represents an example why PoE ignores "heart" and focuses on "gear."

GGG could change that a bit and actually help players "care" about the game and its characters. BUT, that's not why they want us playing because once we "save the princess" we may not want to do that again. But, gamers will want to "keep getting phatter lewts..."

Sad. But, here we are.

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SadDropUser wrote:

I've found nothing in PoE even close to as exciting or new as the experience the first time a player fights The Butcher, Andariel, or Duriel.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I suppose maybe elephants do forget... but in the case of this elephant, Horton Hears a Who else puts atmosphere and experience and excitement high up in terms of their ARPGS. I know I do, and I know I'm not the vocal minority. I rest my case.

I never really pay much attention to boss fights in ARPGs. PoE was really no exception, but then on about my third run through the acts during the Malachai fight it somehow got me and now the amazing soundtrack and Piety yelling 'Kill me!' gives me shivers each time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLEmTmnwAR8

Name 1 boss fight in PoE that is close to as meaningful or scary as the first time you face Duriel in D2.

Not to mention the music and lore in D2.... jesus christ on a KO stick.

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SadDropUser wrote:

Don't get me wrong at all, I'm a long term lover of ARPGS, especially POE. But at the tip of all my friendslist tongues are 'will I still play after D4 clears house'. And despite this being nonchalantly on all of your tongues, and the fact I consider myself a bit of a clever cat, I never caught that tongue so to speak. Hmphhh, I feel a need to translate: I never thought about how much Diablo 4 will change the atmosphe of Path of Exile until now. Here's what we do know (this is coming from an ex pro currently).

1) Path of Exile is a great game, but an incomplete one. Certain builds just crush, other ones feel outclassed and neutered. No game should ever have that, and this cannot be argued, especially to someone like myself who knows alternative mechanics that allow for a wide range of build equities.

2) Diablo seems to have the atmospheric and graphical advantage. This cannot be argued. The main boss fight in PoE looks similar to graphics you'd see on NewGrounds.com or Myspace backgrounds compared to boss fights like Malthael, etc.

3) Diablo 4 will have new content accessible to pro players. Pros like me will be able to meld and change the meta once again, and players like you will benefit. This is something we all should be thankful for.

Biggest point, Point #4.

4) PoE is trade to win, and solo self found builds can take months of grinding to not even come close to finishing at all. Diablo offers multi-systems which allow deviant strategies which in turn, create a higher tier meta. This cannot be argued. Even in Diablo 1, there are strategies an advanced gamer can use to take complete heed of the entire gameplay, categorically if you follow me.

I'll let the regulars decide, I don't think a pro should speak for everyone. So what do the common folk and casuals think? Will you still play your game as a shipwrecked Titanic when a giant Yacht is available currently?

Is this a joke post? Because it reads like bad satire. "Pro" ARPG players. KEKW. And are you seriously comparing Duriel to high tier boss fights in PoE? Hold on one second, lemme go chug 30 thawing potions.

Think it's safe to say diablo 4 is coming this decade. Not 100% sure but it's what my gut tells me. Until then OP can play d3 or even d2 which seem to fulfill his needs far better than POE.

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SadDropUser wrote:

Name 1 boss fight in PoE that is close to as meaningful or scary as the first time you face Duriel in D2.

Not to mention the music and lore in D2.... jesus christ on a KO stick.

I'd argue first time fighting Brutus or Piety. The screams on the way to Piety stuck with me for a while when I first played

everytime when the moon stands right saddropuser posts something about him being a pro and him adressing some problem as a pro

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SadDropUser wrote:

Name 1 boss fight in PoE that is close to as meaningful or scary as the first time you face Duriel in D2.

Not to mention the music and lore in D2.... jesus christ on a KO stick.

I can't remember a single boss fight from D2, but I do remember quite vividly the first time I opened the door to The Butcher's room in Diablo 1. Diablo 2's lack of atmosphere, compared to the original, ruined the game for me, and I never managed to enjoy it.

I played most of the Diablo inspired games that came out, but it was PoE that came closest to recreating the Diablo 1 atmosphere. The Vaal Oversoul, which is a pretty tame fight now, gave me the same chills as The Butcher when Act 2 was first added to the game.