The giant Elephant in the room currently (Expros take on meta)

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esostaks wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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demon9675 wrote:

D4 will be packed with real money gambling mechanics, endless paid “expansions,” and bad employee/customer treatment by ActiBlizz. It’s a major title from a scummy AAA American developer/publisher - it’s going to be crappy and manipulative.

D4 will obliterate PoE in every measurable category from sales, to concurrent players, to twitch views, to retention numbers.

Just like D3 is obliterating POE now with a lot lesser Twitch views and pretty much no endgame content even though they had all the opportunities and resources in the world to improve the game over the years and keep adding content? Especially knowing that their competitors, a small 'indie' company has a game with a lot richer content and keeps adding more every 3 months? Even D2 has more viewers than D3 on Twitch now.

I do hope that D4 will turn great and become another alternative in this genre, but somehow Blizzard keeps proving that they have a real talent for f-ing things up even when you think that it's impossible to f- things up even more.

It's not the Blizzard I fell in love with when I was a kid unfortunately... Im just glad Starcraft, Starcraft II, and Diablo II still have an active player base and that Blizz didnt muck these games

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Lol holy shit everything ok at home bro?

D4 will obliterate PoE in every measurable category from sales, to concurrent players, to twitch views, to retention numbers.

I dont think people realize what a fart in the wind PoE is compared to Diablo. We are talking Millions upon Millions vs. at most a few hundred thousand globally.

Its not even a competition. I mean its like if the Kansas City Chiefs played your local High School Football Team.

You're right, of course.

The Diablo franchise is big, and Blizzard is even bigger. Diablo 4 will be a huge game, with tons of players - yes, way more than PoE. The game will be accessible enough to draw a huge crowd straight from the launch, and probably have end game content to keep them there for a while. And for some, including you(?), numbers are everything.

We see the same in Hollywood every day. Sequals to huge movie series come out, destined to draw a HUGE crowd, but as most triple A movies, they are shallow as fuck, even though they nail the technicalities 100%. While Blizzard will ALWAYS draw a larger crowd than GGG ever will, GGG are - on some levels - appealing to a different crowd. They, of course, know this appeal will never make them "HUGE(!)", as their target audience is more niche than Blizzard's.

While some think GGG should change, to draw a larger crowd just for 'reasons', others see it differently.

My point? Hmmm, I think I lost it in there somewhere. Maybe "numbers aren't everything, if you search for an experience outside the mainstream AAA landscape". But we've had this dicussion before. Have a nice day :)

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Phrazz wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Lol holy shit everything ok at home bro?

D4 will obliterate PoE in every measurable category from sales, to concurrent players, to twitch views, to retention numbers.

I dont think people realize what a fart in the wind PoE is compared to Diablo. We are talking Millions upon Millions vs. at most a few hundred thousand globally.

Its not even a competition. I mean its like if the Kansas City Chiefs played your local High School Football Team.

You're right, of course.

The Diablo franchise is big, and Blizzard is even bigger. Diablo 4 will be a huge game, with tons of players - yes, way more than PoE. The game will be accessible enough to draw a huge crowd straight from the launch, and probably have end game content to keep them there for a while. And for some, including you(?), numbers are everything.

We see the same in Hollywood every day. Sequals to huge movie series come out, destined to draw a HUGE crowd, but as most triple A movies, they are shallow as fuck, even though they nail the technicalities 100%. While Blizzard will ALWAYS draw a larger crowd than GGG ever will, GGG are - on some levels - appealing to a different crowd. They, of course, know this appeal will never make them "HUGE(!)", as their target audience is more niche than Blizzard's.

While some think GGG should change, to draw a larger crowd just for 'reasons', others see it differently.

My point? Hmmm, I think I lost it in there somewhere. Maybe "numbers aren't everything, if you search for an experience outside the mainstream AAA landscape". But we've had this dicussion before. Have a nice day :)

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demon9675 wrote:

D4 will be packed with real money gambling mechanics, endless paid “expansions,” and bad employee/customer treatment by ActiBlizz. It’s a major title from a scummy AAA American developer/publisher - it’s going to be crappy and manipulative.

Yes, I am incredibly cynical about this stuff these days. Blizzard is awful and their games will be awful until something changes in the industry as a whole. Please do not support titles built on employee abuse or predatory, dishonest monetization.

Maybe we’ll be shocked and D4 will be a good game without those anchors weighing it down. It still won’t “replace” PoE; it’ll just be another option.

And nobody will care what the “most skilled” gamers play because they’ve always been far less relevant than they tell themselves. This community has a lot of serious players but it ain’t no Atlas Shrugged elitist fantasy.

I can't remember the last time I signed onto PoE without receiving multiple popups advertising some helm with a green fire effect for $15 or more.

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Phrazz wrote:

You're right, of course.

The Diablo franchise is big, and Blizzard is even bigger. Diablo 4 will be a huge game, with tons of players - yes, way more than PoE. The game will be accessible enough to draw a huge crowd straight from the launch, and probably have end game content to keep them there for a while. And for some, including you(?), numbers are everything.

We see the same in Hollywood every day. Sequals to huge movie series come out, destined to draw a HUGE crowd, but as most triple A movies, they are shallow as fuck, even though they nail the technicalities 100%. While Blizzard will ALWAYS draw a larger crowd than GGG ever will, GGG are - on some levels - appealing to a different crowd. They, of course, know this appeal will never make them "HUGE(!)", as their target audience is more niche than Blizzard's.

While some think GGG should change, to draw a larger crowd just for 'reasons', others see it differently.

My point? Hmmm, I think I lost it in there somewhere. Maybe "numbers aren't everything, if you search for an experience outside the mainstream AAA landscape". But we've had this dicussion before. Have a nice day :)

Ok this is just plain dumb. It's like the Hollywood liberal elites that think Shape of Water is the greatest movie ever, and the rest of the world are just dumb rubes that like Marvel movies. They give awards to each other and pat each others backs, talking about how they are so much better than everyone else.

I'm sorry if Diablo offends your arpg sensibilities, even if it defies reality. That somehow millions enjoy the game but a few thousand "elites" really like the "depth" PoE provides with a big passive tree (mostly useless) and really advanced crafting. LMFAO.

Even I had a laugh when PoE2 showed a shapeshift ranger ascendancy that will be available in a few years, and people gasped & cheered. Haha wtf is this 2001? Seriously some of the PoE truthers have lost their mind (I don't know if you are among them). Don't get me wrong I like PoE. Been here for many years and supported GGG with thousands. That doesn't mean D3 wasn't a great game (it is), or you can't enjoy both.

That is what PoE players have become. Bizarre arpg elitists. Sticking their nose up at any sort of game that actually appeals to a larger segments of player, or even has the slightest accessibility range.

It's equal parts hilarious as it is pathetic. And even funnier is that there massive amounts of PoE players & Streamers that will plop down their money to Blizzard and play D4. It's gonna be great LOL.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

It's equal parts hilarious as it is pathetic. And even funnier is that there massive amounts of PoE players & Streamers that will plop down their money to Blizzard and play D4. It's gonna be great LOL.

Elitist? Either I'm very bad at explaining my point, or you decide to misinterpret it.

I'm not saying PoE is better. I'm not saying PoE appeals to a "better" audience. I don't see PoE players as "better human beings" than Diablo players. I don't see GGG better than Blizzard. I called D3 more "shallow", which is far from negative (for some players).

All I'm saying, is that GGG and PoE appeal, at least partly, to a different crowd, searching for more customization, different itemization and complexity. You can bash all these elements as much as you like, but they are all different from D3.

I'll be giving D4 a miss unless they can come up with something other than the title and a flashy advertisement. Sucks. I loved D2 and SC1 and even the warcrafts (my wife actually has voice credits in WCII). But the old Blizzard isn't there anymore and the quality of the games have fallen. Oh well.

But they'll want at least $100 to buy into it with promises of even more costs later. Forget it.

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Phrazz wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

It's equal parts hilarious as it is pathetic. And even funnier is that there massive amounts of PoE players & Streamers that will plop down their money to Blizzard and play D4. It's gonna be great LOL.

Elitist? Either I'm very bad at explaining my point, or you decide to misinterpret it.

I'm not saying PoE is better. I'm not saying PoE appeals to a "better" audience. I don't see PoE players as "better human beings" than Diablo players. I don't see GGG better than Blizzard. I called D3 more "shallow", which is far from negative (for some players).

All I'm saying, is that GGG and PoE appeal, at least partly, to a different crowd, searching for more customization, different itemization and complexity. You can bash all these elements as much as you like, but they are all different from D3.

I know exactly what you were saying, mostly because you literally wrote it. I saw it and so can anyone else that reads your post.

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We see the same in Hollywood every day. Sequals to huge movie series come out, destined to draw a HUGE crowd, but as most triple A movies, they are shallow as fuck, even though they nail the technicalities 100%.

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Maybe "numbers aren't everything, if you search for an experience outside the mainstream AAA landscape".

Basically somehow Diablo players are the Marvel movie loving morons that like "shallow as fuck" gameplay, and PoE is the artistic award winning Connoisseur's of arpg's that enjoy deeper levels "outside the AAA mainstream" that we cannot possibly understand. So sure go enjoy Shape of Water, because you couldn't possibly be caught dead watching Spiderman...what would the other elites think???

Edit: You were not very specific here, but do you intend to play D4? My guess is yes, and if so, I find your position quite odd, defending ambiguous players that don't share your point of view, but that you are speaking on behalf of or something?

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Basically somehow Diablo players are the Marvel movie loving morons that like "shallow as fuck" gameplay, and PoE is the artistic award winning Connoisseur's of arpg's that enjoy deeper levels "outside the AAA mainstream" that we cannot possibly understand. So sure go enjoy Shape of Water, because you couldn't possibly be caught dead watching Spiderman...what would the other elites think???

Edit: You were not very specific here, but do you intend to play D4? My guess is yes, and if so, I find your position quite odd, defending ambiguous players that don't share your point of view, but that you are speaking on behalf of or something?

You are TRYING to read things between the lines that aren't there.

I never compared PoE to "award winning Connoisseur's". YOU did. I never said people can't understand PoE. YOU did. I enjoy AAA movies too. I enjoy shallow games from time to time too. "Shallow", as I DIRECTLY wrote, isn't necessarily bad, it's just bad IF you're searching for a non-shallow game. And personally, I do not like my ARPG's shallow. I may want my shooter games shallow from time to time. You plainly ignore that I said Blizzard usually nails the technicalities 100%, something GGG do not. Far from.

It's very hard to have a discussion with someone deliberately misunderstands what I'm writing, searching for things between the lines that is not my intention, effectively putting words in my mouth.

On your edit: You find my position quite odd, because you put YOUR opinions between my lines. I follow D4's development, and I'm still on the fence. After the lates updates, showing off the skill tree, where each skills had like 3-4 nodes behind them, they showed to me that they are not appealing to ME as a player (and before you put in some hidden meaning here; no, I do not blame them for that. The world doesn't revolve around me. It just it what it is, a bit too shallow for me, perfect for others).

I'm not defending anyone. Players don't need defending for chooseing Diablo 3, 4, PoE or all three. I'm just saying that a huge part of PoE's player base are here, because Diablo 3 couldn't give them what they were searching for. And currently, it doesn't look like Diablo 4 can either (in my eyes).