No Fun Allowed: Reflect Maps

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666lol666 wrote:

First of all we know that the vast majority of all chars is immune to reflect anyway:
1.) Witch Elementalists are immune to reflect
2.) Scions with the Elementalist Ascendant are immune to reflect
3.) All totem chars are immune to reflect
4.) All DoT chars like RF or essence drain contagion are immune to reflect
5.) All trappers are immune to reflect
6.) All miners are immune to reflect
7.) All summoners (a BIG thing in 3.8) are immune to reflect
Those 7 groups cover about 90% of the playerbase already.

TLDR: Either stop running reflect maps or build your char properly!

Riiiiight, everyone that is playing melee non slayer can go fuck themselves, thank you for the insight, so glad you're there !!!

Brilliant balance, what a genius.

And yeah, by using unrealistic means, you can somewhat mitigate part of the reflect inflicted to one single mob at 400k dps ...
Because that's how we all play, one mob at a time, 30 mins per map, that's how people play this game.


*sigh*

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666lol666 wrote:

I can totally understand that you want one char for everything but that is not what ggg wants.

Bullshit nonsense, really.

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Fruz wrote:

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666lol666 wrote:

First of all we know that the vast majority of all chars is immune to reflect anyway:
1.) Witch Elementalists are immune to reflect
2.) Scions with the Elementalist Ascendant are immune to reflect
3.) All totem chars are immune to reflect
4.) All DoT chars like RF or essence drain contagion are immune to reflect
5.) All trappers are immune to reflect
6.) All miners are immune to reflect
7.) All summoners (a BIG thing in 3.8) are immune to reflect
Those 7 groups cover about 90% of the playerbase already.

TLDR: Either stop running reflect maps or build your char properly!

Riiiiight, everyone that is playing melee non slayer can go fuck themselves, thank you for the insight, so glad you're there !!!

Brilliant balance, what a genius.

And yeah, by using unrealistic means, you can somewhat mitigate part of the reflect inflicted to one single mob at 400k dps ...
Because that's how we all play, one mob at a time, 30 mins per map, that's how people play this game.


*sigh*

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666lol666 wrote:

I can totally understand that you want one char for everything but that is not what ggg wants.

Bullshit nonsense, really.

ya, tbh i wouldnt even know where to begin dismantling the nonsense in that post youve quoted.

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666lol666 wrote:

First of all we

no


Reflect needs to be reworked or the whole games damage values need to be rolled back to reasonable levels for when reflect was not a death sentence.

I'm a casual player who plays for fun and relaxation and not for gratification so ,for me, reflect is a fun killer. I don't run unidentified maps for that reason and reroll maps with any form of reflect in them. In general i really dislike one shot mechanics in any game as i consider them to be cheap ways of keeping the players occupied and specifically the hardcore ones who never seem to be satisfied with any level of difficulty. That automatically excludes any other non hardcore player from parts of the game and i find this to be annoying.

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666lol666 wrote:

...

First of all we know that the vast majority of all chars is immune to reflect anyway:
1.) Witch Elementalists are immune to reflect
2.) Scions with the Elementalist Ascendant are immune to reflect
3.) All totem chars are immune to reflect
4.) All DoT chars like RF or essence drain contagion are immune to reflect
5.) All trappers are immune to reflect
6.) All miners are immune to reflect
7.) All summoners (a BIG thing in 3.8) are immune to reflect
Those 7 groups cover about 90% of the playerbase already.

There are plenty of choices available for making characters that are vulnerable to reflect mechanics. There are also plenty of choices available for making characters that are invulnerable to reflect. And yet, somehow it seems that, at least by your numbers, 90% of builds players actually choose are not vulnerable to reflect mechanics.

If your numbers are correct then reflect would seem to be one of the most powerful influences on player choice; in effect, reflect mechanics limit build diversity in a *very* big way.

Any thoughts about why that should (not) be considered as a good outcome from keeping reflect in the game?

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Regarding the second part, you're comparing apples and oranges. All the other mechanics you mention are manageable even for affected chars without going too far out of your way. Worst case in no regen, you have to bring a mana flask along.

What? How does a mana flask solve the no regen mod for a RF build?

rf is an extremely niche build and no regen provides an interesting gameplay challenge for a vast amount of other builds. if no regen was like reflect and had basically no gameplay impact aside from shitting on rf then it should be removed, that is not the case. rf must suffer no regen for the greater good of interesting map mods.

there is no greater good for reflect, it brings absolutely nothing positive to the game.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

rf is an extremely niche build and no regen provides an interesting gameplay challenge for a vast amount of other builds. if no regen was like reflect and had basically no gameplay impact aside from shitting on rf then it should be removed, that is not the case. rf must suffer no regen for the greater good of interesting map mods.

there is no greater good for reflect, it brings absolutely nothing positive to the game.

Well that does make sense in a way but I still think it's good for every build to have at least one weakness. For example I played RF a lot back in the days but I never felt that no regen was a shitty mod. For me it was my kryptonite so I saved those maps for one of my other chars. Or I played a full glass cannon EH char a few leagues ago and I knew that I could not deal with reflect but I never saw it as a problem (because building the char this way was my choice). Again I saw it as my kryptonite and saved the maps for one of my other chars. The char was a great shaper deleter and after a while I changed the tree and items of that char and now use it as a "low dmg" dealing MF burial chambers farmer and I don't have any problems with reflect anymore. For me it should matter what kind of char you chose for what job. I'm really no friend of the "one char to rule them all" idea.

If you know what you are doing, you can run noregen as RF.

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666lol666 wrote:

I'm really no friend of the "one char to rule them all" idea.

I'm really no friend of the "potentially 'fuck you go home (or standard)' when entering an unid map"

And if you are about to answer the classic nonsensical **** "but it's just a drawback that non reflect-immune builds have", then [removed by me] too.


RF builds do not instantly die in no regen maps, some builds can even run them. This is not the case for reflect with most optimized setups that are not immune to it.