No Fun Allowed: Reflect Maps
" " yep, this and this, all day. " no it doesnt. some builds arnt effected by a given type of reflect, the others dont play that sort of reflect. Doesnt punish anyone and falling into one or other category has absolutely nothing to do with playing a cookie cutter build or not. " i completely disagree. If theres deal breaker mods for your build youd have to be an utter idiot to run an unid map. So theres no risk because you simply dont play them. if i have a build that deals direct damage with phys or ele, i will never play an unid map, ever, because those mods are in the game. The game shouldnt have any deal breaker mods at all because then people dont risk running unid maps on builds that cant do them. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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Yeah reflect is annoying especially early on when corrupting maps to unlock the atlas. Got unlucky earlier today and got 3/6 T13 maps rolled with phys reflect when I corrupted them. So only thing I could do is put them up for sale and run other maps until I get those ones again.
What's also annoying these days is porcupines. If you're playing a build that doesn't shatter or explode mobs, they're a death sentence in red maps. Have to either skip those maps as well or play them slowly and offscreen the porcupines with totems. |
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Worst map ever? Like wtf...
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" BS This is plain nonsense, reflect is not challenge, it's "either you can ignore it, or you can go ***k yourself". Reflect is a relic of the past that did not see its value updated with the pwercreep and it's absolutely dumb in its current iterration, and adding ways to ignore reflect through items/passive is making it binary, not interesting neither challenging. " Unknown difficulty should be the risk, but powercreep has made this very questionable. No regen does not instantly kill your character at least, reflect potentially does, and that's BS honestly. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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" I guess I worded that badly. What I meant was that for many builds (RF, Trap/Mine, etc) no-regen creates a map that simply cannot be run, the same way that the wrong kind of reflect often creates maps for other builds that simply cannot be run. I wasn't talking about the effects of no-regen on builds that struggle with reflect. Rather than remove any of these systems, I'd like to see a much larger variety of these deal-breaker map mods put into the game, so that running an unidentified map would actually feel like it has some element of danger no matter which build you're running. But since I know how unlikely an outcome that is, my point was that if GGG were to remove reflect (and/or no regen, no leech, etc: the ONLY deal-breaker mods for a lot of builds), they need to take away the IIQ bonus for unidentified maps because there's literally nothing being risked by running your maps unidentified at that point. Last edited by ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate#2605 on Sep 22, 2019, 4:09:58 AM
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" My RF trickster can somewhat run no regen maps to be honest :). It's way rippier of course. I would rather have mods that hinders some build quite a lot rather than make it impossible to run. A RF build going into a no-regen map isn't much of a difficulty element, it's a "oh well, I can not run this map with this character" and just leave the map. I don't think it adds any difficulty, I don't think it's fun, I think it's kinf of lazy and boring. But hey, as I have a RF build that can run such a map ( the boss might be much more difficult, I can fire trap it to death maybe but ... ), I guess it isn't all that black. For some (many) builds, reflect is all that bad though. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz#6137 on Sep 22, 2019, 4:12:18 AM
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" Bullshit. Reflect is GGG's version of Iron Maiden. Remember that physical reflection curse in D2? A brief history lesson: Once upon a time, Blizzard North decided to rebalance the game by increasing monster life by a huge amount and increasing player damage by a proportionately huge amount to compensate. Sound familiar? (It should, even if the order is reversed.) Problem was, they forgot that Diablo's area was populated by a monster type that liked to cast Iron Maiden (phys reflect curse) which meant that any melee character would die if they attacked even a single time while thus cursed. Sound familiar? The end result was that that area was off limits to any character that used physical damage (in D2, that meant all melee classes). Therefore, it was not a mechanic that encouraged "paying attention" but rather a binary mechanic that made certain build archetypes quite literally unplayable in that environment. Sound familiar? GGG should learn from D2's mistakes, since the game was inspired by it. Binary mechanics (ALL of them) are shit, because they don't deliver higher rewards for higher risk but rather completely lock out certain builds from certain content. And while I agree with Chris and co. that having certain kinds of content that certain build archetypes are optimized for makes for a fun incentive to create different kinds of characters, I don't agree that locking certain character types out completely adds to the game. Particularly not in a game that is not sufficiently optimized to let people with average gaming computers play true multiplayer in non powerpoint mode. Wash your hands, Exile!
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Reflect isn’t about challenge. The people who say it is are either blowing smoke or bad at the game. There is no counterplay for reflect, only counterbuild. The lack of counterplay is the reason we no longer have reflect rares.
That said the mod is not without merit. The purpose of reflect is to act as a map mod that blocks your build. It’s about map mod management. If you get reflect and you can’t run it you have two options, chaos the map or wait until you roll the no reflect sextant mod and then run your reflect maps. Giving different builds different skip mods helps to provide more explicit strengths and weaknesses and helps you actually feel the difference. Having a build that is all mods viable is nice because you can save time rolling, organizing, and running maps. Having a build with 3-4 skip mods feels shitty. Whether reflect should be one of these common skip mods is debatable, but you should acknowledge its purpose if you’re going to argue against it. |
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" Then my suggestion is that you play a build that isn't affected by things like reflect maps. Totems, mines, traps, minions, builds that use an ascendancy that grants reflect immunity based on playstyle (assassin, elementalist, etc). PoE players: Our game has a wide diversity of builds.
Also PoE players: The [league mechanic] doesn't need to be nerfed, you just need to play a [current meta] build! And the winds will cry / and many men will die / and all the waves will bow down / to the Loreley |
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Reflect isn't challenging. If your build doesn't care about it, then it doesn't exist and if your build does care, then you probably can't do the map.
Saying you need to pay attention is just saying you need to spend 3 times longer doing a map by hitting and running to regend hp. Last edited by Caridor#1821 on Sep 22, 2019, 12:42:59 PM
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