No Fun Allowed: Reflect Maps

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SaiyanZ wrote:

Having played through the whole game now after a while I can say a few things that seem over the top:

- reflect maps. Even with 95% of my damage coming from poison, I still kill myself on reflect. I tried it and there is no solution for my build with Assassin.


Also want to add a few other things that surprised me:

- Those rolling skeletons. The damage they do in maps is very high and they wind up and roll into you before you get to them. Very rippy even with no damage mods on map. There's no way to really fight them if you need to get close. Have to just be able to survive the hits. They don't seem to be a common mob so maybe that is how they are balanced.

- Porcupine explosions. Without Immortal Call CWDT immunity there is no way for many builds to deal with them including mine. I still clear the map if I need it for completion with totems and offscreen them but I just skip the map if I don't need it.

- Those jumping goats when doing a blight. Had a surprise one-shot from one of them in a map with no damage mods.

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PayneK wrote:

I have nothing against reflect packs, they keep you alert, but reflect maps are not challenging at all, they are just build killers.

There are times where i waste 5-6 chaos on rerolling mods just to skip:

-physical reflect
-elemental reflect
-no leech
-no regen
-temporal chains

These are not challenging mods. They just force you into specific builds that ignore them. Not all ascendancies have reflect immunity. No leech kills Vaal Pact builds. No regen kills non-leech builds. Temporal Chains is just a boring mod that no one wants to do since you could complete 2 maps by the time you are done with that one.

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SilentSymphony wrote:

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PayneK wrote:

I have nothing against reflect packs, they keep you alert, but reflect maps are not challenging at all, they are just build killers.

There are times where i waste 5-6 chaos on rerolling mods just to skip:

-physical reflect
-elemental reflect
-no leech
-no regen
-temporal chains

These are not challenging mods. They just force you into specific builds that ignore them. Not all ascendancies have reflect immunity. No leech kills Vaal Pact builds. No regen kills non-leech builds. Temporal Chains is just a boring mod that no one wants to do since you could complete 2 maps by the time you are done with that one.

no regen does not kill my regen characters, it is however slower to complete because i have to rely on flasks instead of charging forward like a train out of hell, temporal chains has mitigations available however and does not really belong on that list if for the simple fact that curse-immunity flasks exist and if you aren't running a curse immunity flask you really need to upgrade.

Reflect as a concept is fine however it needs to be balanced to be in line with other detrimental mods and not literally kill you on most builds.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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666lol666 wrote:

If someone does not want to invest in reflect defence he should simply not run reflect maps.

How do you propose non-Elementalists who use elemental attacks or spells do this?

How do you propose anyone using physical attacks or spells do this?

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666lol666 wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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666lol666 wrote:

If someone does not want to invest in reflect defence he should simply not run reflect maps.

How do you propose non-Elementalists who use elemental attacks or spells do this?

How do you propose anyone using physical attacks or spells do this?

Apart from:

The Ascendant's passive Elementalist grants immunity to reflected elemental damage.

there are also these options:

The passive skill Master of Force grants reduced reflected physical damage damage taken.
The passive skills Ash, Frost and Storm and Primeval Force grants reduced reflected elemental damage taken.
The Assassin's passive Opportunistic causes critical strikes to unable to be reflected.
The Elementalist's passive Paragon of Calamity grants immunity to reflected elemental damage.
The Slayer's passive Headsman grants immunity to reflected physical damage.
Sibyl's Lament grants reduced reflected elemental or physical damage taken when equipped in the left or right ring slot, respectively.
An Essence of Insanity can be crafted on a quiver or ring to gain the mod 10% reduced Reflected Damage taken.
Choosing The Pantheon power Soul of Yugul grants 25% reduced Reflected Damage Taken.
Shaper body armour: (15–30)% reduced Reflected Elemental Damage taken
Elder body armour: (15–30)% reduced Reflected Physical Damage taken

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Baharoth15 wrote:

And even if you used all those Methods combined aside from Paragon/Headsman you would still oneshot yourself even with mediocre damage output so your point is?

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666lol666 wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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666lol666 wrote:

If someone does not want to invest in reflect defence he should simply not run reflect maps.

How do you propose non-Elementalists who use elemental attacks or spells do this?

How do you propose anyone using physical attacks or spells do this?

Apart from:

The Ascendant's passive Elementalist grants immunity to reflected elemental damage.

there are also these options:

The passive skill Master of Force grants reduced reflected physical damage damage taken.
The passive skills Ash, Frost and Storm and Primeval Force grants reduced reflected elemental damage taken.
The Assassin's passive Opportunistic causes critical strikes to unable to be reflected.
The Elementalist's passive Paragon of Calamity grants immunity to reflected elemental damage.
The Slayer's passive Headsman grants immunity to reflected physical damage.
Sibyl's Lament grants reduced reflected elemental or physical damage taken when equipped in the left or right ring slot, respectively.
An Essence of Insanity can be crafted on a quiver or ring to gain the mod 10% reduced Reflected Damage taken.
Choosing The Pantheon power Soul of Yugul grants 25% reduced Reflected Damage Taken.
Shaper body armour: (15–30)% reduced Reflected Elemental Damage taken
Elder body armour: (15–30)% reduced Reflected Physical Damage taken