Evasion progress

"

LadyDevimon wrote:

And this will result in "immortality" because then you kill the drawback.

Logic?

Already there are ways by passives and/or gear.
Show me the int witch that is save with pure intgear.
Or the mara with pure whatever.

This discission about the WORD! :>

Am i the only one here that doesn't just listen and say yes without thinking about it?

:(

Thing is, I likely thought about it harder then you did, I remember every MMO I have played that has tried to balance hit/miss defenses against resistance based ones. I have only seen two solutions that satisfied both sides of the problem.

These were crit-resistance and Adrenal rushes, and since the second was a special feature of the game, is irrelevant to the current discussion.

I don't see crit-resistance as ground breaking in this game, and it does solve a very small percentage of the one-shot issues due to rng.

I didn't agree or disagree, as it stands I still stack evasion and still use iron reflexes, this won't affect me. I'm just helping the discussion along.




Also, there are ALOT of pure ES witches out there aswell as pure armour/hp stack marauders. People don't stack evasion becuase it is simply, in pve, in its current incarnation, the least effective of the three. Why is that?

Its in the dexterity part of the tree, for one, and dex, as a general rule, is not up to par with the other two attributes for PvE, it adds accuracy and evasion, accuracy is not that hard to get and neither is it really needed at all. Second, a majority of gamers prefer a DEPENDABLE bonus for their survivability, rather then a chance. Its not necessarily becuase the chance is inferior, its just not reliable, and they therefore, are averted to it.

"

pure armour/hp stack marauders.

This is pure?

I give up, i give up, pls dont hurt me anymore :p

"

LadyDevimon wrote:

"

pure armour/hp stack marauders.

This is pure?

I give up, i give up, pls dont hurt me anymore :p

The point theyre making by saying "pure" is that all of the + armour nodes are found on the STR side of the wheel, meaning that nodes needed to get to said nodes, are STR as well as being more node efficient for said str to get to.

The complaint isn't necessarily that evasion is not powerful enough, its that if you don't want to chance your survivability to the RNG machine, there is no common alternative within the Dex tree.

Witches have Energy shield
Marauders have a majority of the +life in the tree and almost all of the +armour nodes

Rangers have +evasion, and albeit there is iron reflexes, theyre making the arguement that is it really fair and balanced to consider the extra investment of slots in order to acheive a seperate type of survivability?

I really don't care, i think this arguement will stop if not disappear and lose credit immediately on the release of PvP and eveyone starts stacking evasion.

Thank you for your answers.

Yes the armor is in the strength area because its the related defense to this stat.
Same principle to the other defenses.

"

The complaint isn't necessarily that evasion is not powerful enough, its that if you don't want to chance your survivability to the RNG machine,

Solution is already ingame, its called ARMOR. Sorry to name it again but just wtf? :P

If u want it u have a keystone in the dex area or u can mix your build with an armor path and gear.
I also see a lot of health nodes in the dex area.

If you have enough accuracy you can easy focus on hp on gear. While a marauder or melee typ focus more on acc on gear.

The whole possibilities are already there and just wait to be taken.

in my opinion the current system is perfect because it always making choises with sacrifices.

I hope GGG stay this way and don't listen here to such suggestions like move the cap to 99% to "avoid" the worst case.

Sidenide: This just makes the worst case less occur

Neither my marauder, nor templar, nor dual wielding witch has ever had a need for accuracy. Ever.

Health is most present in the marauder/str, on top of the natural hp from str nodes, aswell as regen and damage. Also, a majority of the armour nodes are there. The witch has Energy shield, HP nodes AND is closer to a few armour nodes. The ranger is more then 10 nodes away from anything but evasion. The arguement is, its MUCH easier for other classes to get HP substitutes/other types of defense, where as its a major investment for a ranger to get anything but evasion.

Do I personally have a problem with this? No, I just make a duelist. Is it a balance despairity? Yes. Why?

Rangers just don't do enough damage to justify not having a secondary defensive option. Witches AND marauders have the potential to do MUCH more DPS atm, as well as survive better then said ranger.

Why?

The Life nodes in the witch are the same, but witches have the potential to get energy shield aswell. They also do much more damage and are closer to AoF if you want to concede that point.

Marauders have +8% nodes rather then +6; armour nodes abound, as do +regen. They also have the inherent ability to scale their damage with STR which also makes them hit harder.

That means logically, the ranger has to hit MUCH harder then the other two to explain the despairity in defensive capabilities. ATM, they just don't.

So with miss chance the rng machine is okay?

Also this is not about classes, its about builds. And a build that uses magic doesn't need hit. Obvious.
Or a build with resolute technic.
All others that dont use accuracy just sacrifice the chance to hit. they prefer it to click 2 times instead of one.

This all has nothing to do with evasion.

Also your damage problem has nothing to do with evasion.
If a build is better with a marauder instead of a ranger, this isn't an evasion problem.

Strengh is related to melee, armor and phys dmg. Not because GGG loves melee, its because they have to stay in melee. To compare a range build with a melee one is not right. (I prefer nonsense but i want to be kind :p)

All your arguments have nothing to do with evasion rng.
Its the character of Dex.

also you are talking about the potential of the witch, well every one has the potential.

This shall be your reasening?

Sorry but ... what?

Because of DPS differences in the Beta you want an other evasion that is like armor but on an other way?

NO!

"

LadyDevimon wrote:

So with miss chance the rng machine is okay?

Also this is not about classes, its about builds. And a build that uses magic doesn't need hit. Obvious.
Or a build with resolute technic.
All others that dont use accuracy just sacrifice the chance to hit. they prefer it to click 2 times instead of one.

This all has nothing to do with evasion.

Also your damage problem has nothing to do with evasion.
If a build is better with a marauder instead of a ranger, this isn't an evasion problem.

Strengh is related to melee, armor and phys dmg. Not because GGG loves melee, its because they have to stay in melee. To compare a range build with a melee one is not right. (I prefer nonsense but i want to be kind :p)

All your arguments have nothing to do with evasion rng.
Its the character of Dex.

also you are talking about the potential of the witch, well every one has the potential.

This shall be your reasening?

Sorry but ... what?

Because of DPS differences in the Beta you want an other evasion that is like armor but on an other way?

NO!

Are you reading my posts. At all. I don't think so.

Please. re-read them. You are contradicting yourself everywhere, then spounting random points not related to anything, then mispelling everything (No sympathy, english is my 5th language).


TL;DR (If you even know how to read, maybe you will read this)

I never once suggested Evasion be like armor;

The damage despairity between classes is a relative balance point;

If witches aren't supposed to be hit, why do they have more survivability options then a dex class that isn't necessarily all range?

"

LadyDevimon wrote:

And this will result in "immortality" because then you kill the drawback.

Logic?

Already there are ways by passives and/or gear.
Show me the int witch that is save with pure intgear.
Or the mara with pure whatever.

This discission about the WORD! :>

Am i the only one here that doesn't just listen and say yes without thinking about it?

:(

I think people think about it, but they are coming to different conclusions.

Most probably think about it from a lower level character, leveling up, while your way of seeing it is very end-game oriented. Both are valid since ladder-races as we know them are leveling competitions, while PvP is endgame competitions. You have to keep both sides happy in this.

It is not done by raising the max to 99% evasion which would be overpowered if reacheable and I think it is extremely unlikely most people would agree to it (it is actually doable in a way that does not change the game-balance in endgame much if they change target-values for the calculations to be unobtainable, but that is irrelevant to the point).

I do not think witches are the best for comparison since they often build around getting hit only very few times, while using ranged attacks to kill monsters.
Rangers can be build as a melee character (and it is encouraged by gear and the passive skills). In melee combat you have to be able to survive a few extra hits and that is the primary problem. The passive grid in the starting area for rangers is not designed for surviveability and that is a problem in early game. Sure you can steal the duelist starting position or the marauder starting position and pick up what you need in that way but as Epsilon points out it is at a heavy cost of notes you have to spend and you would honestly have better opportunities by making a marauder or duelist to boot.

First, I don't contradicting in any point.
Second, i read your post but your arguments have, and i say it twice, nothing to do with evasion and its kind.

With you, i mean all. Yes it sound i would only mean your person but you defend this "evasion is bad, now i'm mad" corner.

Witches have 0, zero, null , nothing of evasion or amror in the area. They need the energy shield to absorb all the dmg. This is an other mechanic and its fine. You want energy shield also with an armor character?

NO!

Why?
Because they get all hits. What are they doing? They go for max ES, take CI and wear a shield for block.
This is a mix of 3 defenses and not PURE.

You understand it now or do you need to compare your PURE evasion(here rly pure) with NOT PURE ( here you mean pure) builds?

You have your point, fine. But for me it doesn't make any logical sense to say just by dps comparision that evasion is bad.

Also if you have a certain build in aim, if an other class fits this build better, than its just so.
Its the character of the tree with different starting positions to have different results.

And again, this is not the reasoning to change the evasion problem.
Which is just caused by ppl that want to min/max a build and the obvious rng now doesn't fit there plans.

And pls dont compare a 8% marauder node with one of the view 6% nodes. There are also 8% and 12% nodes.

And as a sidenote:

Where are the broken build/characters?
Dont see any. No references or proof.
Pls show me the classcanon that failed due a red aura triple rarepack.
Or the 90% evasion melee ranger with 500 hitpoints, jumped to death by a goat.

Show em! :p

The passive grid is designed for survival. Do you all troll me or what is this about 0o.

wait a sec, here.
Early lvl20 meleeranger

This is broken? This is no survival?