Evasion progress

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LadyDevimon wrote:

The more you buff your pure evasion builds, the more you nerf armor tanks.And at the end forcing them to go more evasion than armor.

Nonsense, changing evasion has zero effect on the efficacy of armour. Tbh it just sounds like you have another agenda.

And tbh you have no idea what i'm talking about.

If you buff evasion to what ever strange new mechanic you want, this will force armor tanks to move more to evasion than befor. its like a nerf for them, poor heavy armor guys.

Or, lets say you double all sources of evasion increase so its easier to go for the 90% cap.

Tanks chose evasion befor armor because it grants a lot more protection than armor. Also evasion doesn't get worse the more dmg an attack does.

But you forgot about all this. Its just about evasion only in its own universe with nothing else and no other options to improve evasion indirectly.

Also i see no build, no gear posted. All just raw theroy like my insane example.

"My poor int witch with 4k Es can't tank caos, ES is broken."

Thats all what i read here but its just evasion instead of ES.

Sorry if it sounds harsh but from outside, its just that.

So please show us the broken chars/builds and for what reason you can't step a foot anywhere.

I think i'm not the only person here that waits for some references.

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Archangel591 wrote:

I simply enjoyed having a powerful shield in D2 and hearing that "Clink" sound as often as possible - feeling all Indestructible by blocking hit after hit.

Yea...

How to improve a game in one lesson :

Put a damn sound on block. Seriously, I can't understand why it isn't in the game yet. It shouldn't be that hard...

Now I'm very worried when I read this :

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Mark_GGG wrote:

The reason for this is that if you evade, no damage package is sent form the server - when the client reaches the point it would apply damage, it checks whether it's received a package form the server, and if not it doesn't apply damage. However, the package may have just been delayed due to lag, in which case when it arrives the client will realise that damage should already have been dealt, and apply it. There's no way for the client to know if you evaded, or if you were hit and the package didn't get in right on time, so it can't play an animation based on evading since it doesn't know if you did.

Why haven't you made it work as block ? In programming, usually, factorising mechanics is the best way to go. What I read here sounds like shooting yourself in the foot. Client not being able to know if you evaded sounds absurd. You must have a reason, not sending a package ? I think the sacrifice isn't worth it at all.

It's not the first time I hear about weird-looking implementations on this forum. I might be wrong, I'm not a professional programmer (yet) afterall, but my small experience has already proven that professionals often do very ugly things. Since PoE is a game with highly complex mechanics (that would probably make flee many programmers), if evasion is handled in a such convoluted way, I'm worried about things such as keystones and support gems, and how the game will be maintained during the following years without you being forced to rewrite half of the engine each time you want to change a small thing.

My comment was about what I quoted no more no less. It was pretty clear what you where talking about (and it was simply nonsensical). Making changes to evasion have as much influence on the efficacy of armour as changing the launcher. None in other words. My point was neither about the current efficacy of evasion nor of armour, it was simply to point out the fallacy in your reasoning.

Having said that, there does seem to be a flaw in the current implementation of evasion. Others better qualified than me have detailed what that that is.

You assume that any change to evasion will make it 'superior' to armour and 'force' people to take it. To be honest if that is your view then it's pointless discussing the matter further. No one one wants that as has been pointed out to you before. Not only is it a strawman argument it is a non sequitur.

Maybe you should think about it befor writing such nonsense?!

Every change in the stats system has influence on other stats. This is quite obvious. I dont need to explain this any further. Point.

Evasion is still a chance and it will stay this way. What your folks is looking for is so called "armor".

If you want simplification, ok its your point. I dont want it, i dont want an all equal stat system with just different names. Every defense has positive/negative aspects according to his realted stat STG/DEX/INT.

Its intended to have the possibility to create so called "fail builds". So you have the chance to improve them due respec and by your experience.

A classcanon evasion only build is NOT a build you should aiming for. Not because evasion is bad, its because the worst case will maybe kill you. Even an evasion only tank build is not suggested. The problem is not evasion, its the ONLY.

And again, where are all the builds/chars? I think this "problem" is mostly just in your head?

Sorry for the harshness but wtf do you want with this thread?

Immortality for free?

LadyDevimon, please keep it civil. :)

Most people are complaining about reliability of evasion and the lack of surviveability of a pure evasion character. Some suggests to add more +life passives or more strenght passives in the passive skill tree. Your argument on that seems to be +life on items can make up a lot of that and that is a reasonable argument, but I do not think we all agree that forcing particular choices (+life gear) in mods as a necessity is a good idea. Your main arguments are very much against diversity here, which is not what the developers are aiming for based on their previous statements on balance.

The other possibility is completely redesigning evasion and that is a completely different approach. Yes it might change the choices for armour users and energy shield users towards evasion, but it does not automatically mean it is impossible to actually balance the new mechanics toward how the choices are working at the moment and at the same time making it unique.

Shooting at the ideas only "because it is not evasion as I know it" is not a good argument for anything. Everyone else can see that you do not want evasion changed, but you are just lashing out instead of putting foreward rational arguments. Please read what people write and keep ad hominem and strawmanning to a minimum.

Could be give evasion two features, avoid the attack, and then avoid the crit or crit resistance?

Crits are stronger against regular armor and energy shields, and although crits aren't necessarily huge in the PvE scene, its enough of a balance to possibly fill the small gap between armor, energy shield and evasion.

If anything needs to be done at all. I don't approve of evasion in its current incarnation, and dex itself seems to be revolving around hitting and missing, so a high evasion could easily and logically lead itself to being crit resistance.

I try to keep it civil as good as i can but i'm just talking the truth.

I have read this entire thread and there is no build, no gear, no char as a reference. Also all arguments are always about that "pure" or "only".

Maybe some should think about what a drawback is or that some choises have disadvantages.

For me this is just crying for immortality for minimal effort put into a char. Which is in my opinion not right.

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LadyDevimon wrote:

I try to keep it civil as good as i can but i'm just talking the truth.

I have read this entire thread and there is no build, no gear, no char as a reference. Also all arguments are always about that "pure" or "only".

Maybe some should think about what a drawback is or that some choises have disadvantages.

For me this is just crying for immortality for minimal effort put into a char. Which is in my opinion not right.

Not necessarily, the tricky part is that evasion IS sub-par in PvE, but the thing is, evasion/chance-to-miss defenses are ALWAYS hard to balance in a game.

I took my suggestion from another game that successfully implemented miss defenses as; Chance to miss and resistance to Critical strike chance/damage. Since we already have those two seperated into seperate catagories of multiplier and chance, this is a viable path.

It would somewhat mitigate the I-Just-Got-One-Shot syndrome that plagues evasion, while still leaving the possibility of getting killed easily if the RNG hates you.

And this will result in "immortality" because then you kill the drawback.

Logic?

Already there are ways by passives and/or gear.
Show me the int witch that is save with pure intgear.
Or the mara with pure whatever.

This discission about the WORD! :>

Am i the only one here that doesn't just listen and say yes without thinking about it?

:(