Path of Exile and p2w

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putblug wrote:

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Mythreindeer wrote:

Assume we accept your definition of p2w and that PoE is p2w and we concede the argument to you, what are you going to do about it? Keep ranting on the forums until they give everyone free stash tabs? Quit playing? Sob softly in the corner? Fortunately, you get to keep ranting as none of that will happen (well maybe the sobbing).

Now look above at nubatron's post to read a well-thought out opinion.

I assume that you are wondering about the agenda behind the thread and people who support it? Well, just read OP's post. It's to point out that stash tabs are indeed P2W and that it's silly to pretend that they are not.

While I agree that Nubatron's post is generally good and deserves more attention to be discussed further, it's provides very little value in a subject where basic common sense is refused by playing the dumb card. Reality is "subjective" after all. Even a crazy person wouldn't be crazy according to himself and others alike him.

Note also that OP made it perfectly clear that he loves POE and that he supports the game, yet you seem to attack this point the hardest.

The whole stash tab "discussion" reminds me of this scene, lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3boy_tLWeqA

A person's "reality" is subjective, even yours.

I wasn't attacking the OP, it was directed at yamface.

The topic at hand is subjective, not objective as you so want to believe and are trying hard to support though your arguments are no more cogent than those against because, as I said, subjective.

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yamface wrote:

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

See, people don't read. My original response was removed too, as I even pointed out.

Less than a year ago there would be no "intervention", but perhaps they just got sick of people arguing over the forums vehemently over nothing.

I see nothing wrong in "defending yourself", you just didn't get the hint.

But that's ok, these threads are just a rehash of the same old same old.

Can you just.. drop the subject already? Like what is your problem? Everything was deleted but you decided to come back looking for more...

You stereotyped me in one of your posts, and then shot a passive aggressive comment about it. I defended it with something you apparently didn't believe at first, and now that you start finding things out, you need to get the last word in. Look I'm not much of a fan of the sore loser mentality. I don't need to read more of the off-topic posts you write about experiences of other people etc, you decided to write that original post to the wrong person. Everyone makes mistakes, just accept yours and move on.

The PoE community goes beyond the elite, as the vast majority doesn't even commit enough to make it to maps. Others just prefer a variety and have other games to spread their free time across. That's a whole lot of people who have absolutely no interest in ladder rankings but simply choose to play out of enjoyment.

Ladder rankings and stacks of currency don't hold a lot of clout on these forums. If you truly want to impress or simply prove a point one should do so with the quality and content of their posts.

Or just post something funny or entertaining.

lol that's a yikes

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Ladder rankings and stacks of currency don't hold a lot of clout on these forums. If you truly want to impress or simply prove a point one should do so with the quality and content of their posts.

If you actually believed in this, you wouldn't have been the first one to use this in the argument. Brushing off my post because you assumed an average joe level of a player from me is on the same vein as me countering it saying otherwise. So now it begs the question: why did you suddenly change tunes? I'm going to tell you outright: you found out you fucked with the wrong person, so now you're playing damage control, and you have been for the past 4 pages. So now, for you, any argument that uses the level of a player is no longer a valid talking point because it no longer works in your favor.

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The PoE community goes beyond the elite, as the vast majority doesn't even commit enough to make it to maps. Others just prefer a variety and have other games to spread their free time across. That's a whole lot of people who have absolutely no interest in ladder rankings but simply choose to play out of enjoyment.

oof

That is a very enlightening post. It is indeed true that there are a variety of players. Unfortunately this highlights that you never understood the basics of the topic of this thread. That there are many casual players in this game has nothing to do with p2w. P2w by is very nature targets the competitive players. So while I applaud your efforts to repeat this post over and over, it shows that you missed the mark by a country mile.

It is completely natural to see that casual players don't even notice the p2w aspects. In fact that is probably why there is so much disagreement in this thread in the first place. The casual players are not playing at a level where they notice the power of stash tabs. The hardcore competitive players do.

To illustrate this, I'll give a very extreme example. Let's say GGG adds mirrors and exalts the cash shop, and then they gate uber elder from the game entirely and it's only accessible by buying the access from the cash shop, and then they add a consumable item that 1 shots uber elder, and then they add gear that have stats far beyond what's available in the game.

I'm pretty sure most if not everyone that posted in this thread would agree that this definitely crossed the p2w line... to the deep end.

You said half the players signing up for this game never passes act 1 brutus. Do you think any of those guys care about that cash shop?

What about the guys that beat act 10 and quit?

What about the guys that do only white/yellow maps?

In the lens of these players, this game would still not be p2w... because their world hasn't been affected by the cash shop yet.

But what about red maps? Only 1% of the playerbase reaches here, we are officially entering territory of competitive players. They are going to notice the impact of that p2w cash shop.

If you want to know if a game is p2w, you ask the competitive player's opinion. Not the casual's.

If what you're saying is that you have to "win" in order to discuss "winning" you're going to get a very biased discussion.

You don't need to "win" to be a competitive player. You just need to have that mindset. Someone ranked 100,000th on the ladder can still be considered a competitive player IF they have the competitive mindset. Basically, it means they're tryhards, and playing in this way is fun to them.

Even if you believe there's going to be a biased discussion, it's virtually certain that you are still better off than asking the casual who quit before brutus.

[Removed by Support]

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yamface wrote:

You don't need to "win" to be a competitive player. You just need to have that mindset. Someone ranked 100,000th on the ladder can still be considered a competitive player IF they have the competitive mindset. Basically, it means they're tryhards, and playing in this way is fun to them.

Can't you see that this is ALL subjective?

"P2W" is clearly subjective. "Advantage" maybe less so. "Win"? In a PvE game where you're only "tryharding"? "Competitive" is clearly subjective, as you show here. None of you have the blueprint here.

4 tabs are not enough to "win" the game ? Go play on ProjectPT's league for a while . You will be happy even with 1 tab after that. .

Standard still exists. I wish all of you good luck with 4 tabs after a year, two, seven...
Even if you are not a hoarder like me, which you probably are because you're playing this game.

In a League? Only if you try really hard not to pick shit up.
I already have ~5 tabs full + currency and fragments, and I'm only at White Maps with a single character.

P.S: to the "OMG u play gaem 7 yrs y u no support?" responses coming up: I did.
And "support" can be a couple hundred dollars worth of shiny MTX, not tabs.
Why? Because they are fucking p2w. And I got them anyway. All of them.

This is, and will always be, the most ridiculous debate in these forums.

Semantics and perspective manipulation and in the end, no possible consensus, solution, or even some minor suggestion of concessions.

P2W is exp potions and in-game equipment.

Vs

P2W is "convenience".

I ask you this, in all honesty: Who cares?

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Slaanesh69 wrote:

P2W is exp potions and in-game equipment.

I also like to pretend that. It makes me feel better about my purchased advantage.