Path of Exile and p2w

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Mythreindeer wrote:

Assume we accept your definition of p2w and that PoE is p2w and we concede the argument to you, what are you going to do about it?

As a video game attorney, that would mean I get to use your words as legal documentation against ggg if they were filed a lawsuit on this.

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Mythreindeer wrote:

Assume we accept your definition of p2w and that PoE is p2w and we concede the argument to you, what are you going to do about it? Keep ranting on the forums until they give everyone free stash tabs? Quit playing? Sob softly in the corner? Fortunately, you get to keep ranting as none of that will happen (well maybe the sobbing).

Now look above at nubatron's post to read a well-thought out opinion.

I assume that you are wondering about the agenda behind the thread and people who support it? Well, just read OP's post. It's to point out that stash tabs are indeed P2W and that it's silly to pretend that they are not.

While I agree that Nubatron's post is generally good and deserves more attention to be discussed further, it's provides very little value in a subject where basic common sense is refused by playing the dumb card. Reality is "subjective" after all. Even a crazy person wouldn't be crazy according to himself and others alike him.

Note also that OP made it perfectly clear that he loves POE and that he supports the game, yet you seem to attack this point the hardest.

The whole stash tab "discussion" reminds me of this scene, lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3boy_tLWeqA

I feel like a lot of people in this thread have completely misunderstood my post.

First, there is no rage on my part at all (though several people here seem to think so) it was more of stating an opinion. I also never said that Path of Exile was a bad game..I love this game and as I said in my post have supported it and will continue to do so for a long time.

Second, I challenge any of you to play an entire league with only the 4 starter tabs. If you tell me game play is the same as having a map+currency and maybe a quad as having 4 vanilla tabs I will call you silly. There is a clear difference and the only way to get that difference is by spending real money.

Third, I CLEARLY stated that p2w does not mean bad game.

Fourth, I made this post to state my opinion and hear others but most of these posts have just been insults or stating something with no argument or basis for their opinion so I will make this very simple:

If you think there is no p2w aspect to tabs play an entire league with the 4 basic vanilla tabs and let me know how the league went for you and how "tabs make no difference"

To everyone that stated their arguments and did not name call or attack anyone thank you for your nice posts.

No one is saying that it's not a different experience, playing with tabs and without. It's just not giving a direct advantage in gameplay. Most people don't run shops or even trade. Progress in this game isn't blocked by lack of tabs. Items you get aren't blocked by lack of tabs. You have to play differently... that's the only difference.

Here is how I see the Tab problem.

1.) It's not a problem.
1a.) 4 tabs let me play the game for the first time 1 toon from start to
finish just fine.
1b.) If you like the game after 1 run though and wish to play it again you
should start helping pay for it. i.e. Stash Tabs.

2.) POE is not a pay to win model.
2a.) POE is a pay to keep playing with quality of life after 1 toon 1 run
though the game.
2b.) 1 run 1 toon though the game lets you play the full story line then
decided if the game is worth sticking with and helping pay for. This is
awesome. It's like a car dealership sending a mercedes bends home with
you for like a year test drive then deciding if your going to buy it.

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wallsh1 wrote:

I feel like a lot of people in this thread have completely misunderstood my post.

First, there is no rage on my part at all (though several people here seem to think so) it was more of stating an opinion. I also never said that Path of Exile was a bad game..I love this game and as I said in my post have supported it and will continue to do so for a long time.

Second, I challenge any of you to play an entire league with only the 4 starter tabs. If you tell me game play is the same as having a map+currency and maybe a quad as having 4 vanilla tabs I will call you silly. There is a clear difference and the only way to get that difference is by spending real money.

Third, I CLEARLY stated that p2w does not mean bad game.

Fourth, I made this post to state my opinion and hear others but most of these posts have just been insults or stating something with no argument or basis for their opinion so I will make this very simple:

If you think there is no p2w aspect to tabs play an entire league with the 4 basic vanilla tabs and let me know how the league went for you and how "tabs make no difference"

To everyone that stated their arguments and did not name call or attack anyone thank you for your nice posts.

I just personally wish people would be willing to do a little more research, given that google is just a few clicks away.

Read up on the origins of Pay-2-Win and its usage. The upside is those types of games were not able to flourish in most Western gaming cultures, the downside is newer gamers associating virtually any purchase as qualifying as pay to win.

4 tabs or 400, the player still has to actively participate in gameplay. More tabs allows more storage, but knowing what's worth holding onto and what is just a waste of time and effort the individual player has to learn.

No one is arguing that additional storage helps. I know in my personal case they actually made less effective because I waste more time identifying and storing stuff that may or may not sell instead of just focusing on the best that will. I'd be a lot more efficient and richer in game since I couldn't waste the space, instead of hoarding things I'll probably never use.

I do think the "winning" part doesn't get addressed nearly enough. Not a single aspect of the gameplay is restricted behind a paywall. You don't have to pay a dime to access it, you simply have to have enough working knowledge of the game to understand how to progress enough to do so.

If beating the final questline isn't winning, what is? Pvp is nearly nonexistent. Bathing in crazy virtual wealth? Claiming superiority of others because you have more currency?

The problem isn't saying "Stash Tabs are P2W!!!". While I don't agree, I have enough empathy to understand that view, [Removed by Support]

The problem is labeling PoE as "STRICTLY P2W", putting it in the same category as Clash of Clans and other games, MADE around being P2W. It draws a completely wrong picture of PoE at its core. It's so fucking black or white as it gets, [Removed by Support]

Stash tabs are often a ONE time purchase, with SERIOUS diminishing returns, and don't give you more power the more you buy, like REAL P2W games. They are also pretty cheap. In addition, they do IN NO way hinder you from playing the WHOLE game, experiencing EVERYTHING.

But they have this urge to put PoE in the "P2W category". PoE is FAR from a REAL P2W game, and it never will be. Calling PoE P2W, makes me think that people have no experience with real P2W games.

[Removed by Support]

[Removed by Support]

I have probably what.. posted the most in this thread recently. There are views that I can accept that think poe isn't p2w.

However.

Saying that stash tabs don't offer any advantage whatsoever is on the level of arguing 2 + 2 = 5

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yamface wrote:

There are views that I can accept that think poe isn't p2w.

You're probably right. I haven't searched everywhere.

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yamface wrote:

people think stash tabs don't have p2w elements is simply a dishonest facade

...it just don't seem that way.

"Dishonest" or "acting stupid"? I'm neither of those, yet I do disagree with you on several points. How can that be?

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yamface wrote:

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

It's like if saddropuser was real...

Wait, you forgot to link mirrors and exalts and chaos in the post.

That's a yikes. So I guess the moral of the story is: think twice before you try condescending criticism, else you end up in the hole you're in :)

I did originally respond to this but it didn't quite survive the CoC. Suffice it to say that most players are more concerned with their own individual experience, not some ladder ranking.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2576672

While the numbers have changed slightly since the release of that data, it's enough to paint a picture, given how 24 challenges was already less than 3% of the player base.


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