EA killed for "Surprise Mechanics", TencentGGG slides on "Mystery Box". How?

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Draegnarrr wrote:

As to your second bit loot boxes are gambling, its blatantly obvious from any angle they are designed for 2 purposes.

To get an increased of money for cosmetics by not allowing people to directly buy what they want.

To trigger all of the gambling triggers to score whales.

Not GGG's though. It's also a way for broke people to have a chance at getting the way overpriced MTX. They have extremely generous rates for things 10x the price of the boxes, and even the shittiest drops are well worth the 3$. And not everyone has a lack of self control and can't not buy a massive amount.

I don't understand how people are considering this gambling. You have to be able to lose for it to be gambling, it's a fact. That's why EA got so much shit for theirs. Because there was specific things that you had to get or it was a waste, and those things weren't common.

Edit: vvv Dude, no. They make it clear you can get dupes so you know you're stupid if you keep buying them.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

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Yogoff wrote:

You will allways be even because you always get something out of the Box that is worth more or the same then the Points you invest into the Box

This idea is largely spin, designed to encourage post-fact justification of overspending.

Price and worth aren't the same thing. A company putting a price tag of $35 on a tomato doesn't mean I suddenly think tomatoes are worth $35. You aren't "even" unless you get something you would have actually voluntarily and individually paid that price for in the shop.

It's more than spin actually.

I mentioned it a few replies ago, but the duplicate issue is really predatory, and that really cuts into the "worth" of subsequent boxes. Since you can see the chance rolls, its obvious to me that GGG wants you to hit a dupe, which is basically worthless, and roll again.

I think they finally realize this looks and feels fucking bad, and the latest mystery box and least has some use for dupes.

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BloodPuddles420 wrote:

I don't understand how people are considering this gambling. You have to be able to lose for it to be gambling, it's a fact.

You can lose. If you buy a box for $3, and you end up with anything that you wouldn't have independently paid $3 for, you lost.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

It's more than spin actually.

Hah, oh absolutely, this rhetoric is actively exploitative, I just didn't want to level that accusation at people repeating it rather than at the source.

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BloodPuddles420 wrote:

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Draegnarrr wrote:

As to your second bit loot boxes are gambling, its blatantly obvious from any angle they are designed for 2 purposes.

To get an increased of money for cosmetics by not allowing people to directly buy what they want.

To trigger all of the gambling triggers to score whales.

I don't understand how people are considering this gambling. You have to be able to lose for it to be gambling, it's a fact. That's why EA got so much shit for theirs. Because there was specific things that you had to get or it was a waste, and those things weren't common.

Your not going to understand because you gave a description of gambling while using it to describe something as not gambling

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BloodPuddles420 wrote:

It's only gambling if you're an idiot. If you buy a five pack like "Wonder what I'll get." it's not.

Roulette? I wonder what i'll get, Blackjack? I wonder what i'll get, Insert card game here, I wonder what i'll get?

What defines gambling is stakes and there are stakes in loot boxes you are paying 5$ for a spin, if you win you get wings, if you lose you get a white fern HO decoration because I doubt they are legally allowed to give you nothing.

The ONLY way for them to not be gambling is if all possible outcomes are 100% evenly acceptable to you and still that would only mean it wasn't gambling for you personally, to anybody with differences of like/dislike for the item contents it has become gambling by default.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

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BloodPuddles420 wrote:

I don't understand how people are considering this gambling. You have to be able to lose for it to be gambling, it's a fact.

You can lose. If you buy a box for $3, and you end up with anything that you wouldn't have independently paid $3 for, you lost.

No, randomness doesn't make something gambling. If you don't want something from it and choose to buy the box instead of waiting for it in the shop you are making it gambling.

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BloodPuddles420 wrote:

No, randomness doesn't make something gambling. If you don't want something from it and choose to buy the box instead of waiting for it in the shop you are making it gambling.

I didn't say anything about "gambling". You're entitled to your definition of that, even if it's not one I'd agree with. What I said is that you can lose. Do you think paying $3 for something you wouldn't choose to pay $3 for is winning?

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

I didn't say anything about "gambling". You're entitled to your definition of that, even if it's not one I'd agree with. What I said is that you can lose. Do you think paying $3 for something you wouldn't choose to pay $3 for is winning?

No, that's why you don't. If you like everything in it though you're guaranteed to win.

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BloodPuddles420 wrote:

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

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BloodPuddles420 wrote:

I don't understand how people are considering this gambling. You have to be able to lose for it to be gambling, it's a fact.

You can lose. If you buy a box for $3, and you end up with anything that you wouldn't have independently paid $3 for, you lost.

No, randomness doesn't make something gambling. If you don't want something from it and choose to buy the box instead of waiting for it in the shop you are making it gambling.

Maybe I could agree if all the contents had an equal chance, and if there was duplicate protection.

There isnt. Its weighted so that you get lower cost item duplicates with increasing frequency, and it tries to encourage gambling instincts to roll again.

Have 16 pairs of sin gauntlets, for example, is definitely losing imo.

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BloodPuddles420 wrote:

No, that's why you don't. If you like everything in it though you're guaranteed to win.

Exactly, yes, that is why I don't gamble :)

But it's not just "liking" all the items, in abstract isolation, that's required to "guarantee a win". Liking things is easy; I like lots of things I'd never pay the asking price for. To win, you need to know you would have voluntarily paid $3 for any of those items individually.

I still don't understand this "gambling" crap. Maybe it's because I don't understand how people get scammed in this game I don't know but everyone's acting like loot boxes are exactly the same as walking into a casino, but in that context they aren't gambling. There's a 100% chance you're going to lose 100% of your money. You just hope to get some worthless cosmetic in return.

You can't trade the cosmetic. You can't sell it to somebody else. It doesn't change anything in game. By all definitions it's worthless. So why is giving a company some cash for a cosmetic, which is just showing your support, suddenly gambling? It isn't GGG's problem if you keep buying mystery boxes. You're the one spending the money. It shouldn't be a regulatory board's problem either. Once again, you're the one spending the money