I need an automated trading mechanic to enjoy this game again

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Apachy wrote:

Could you elaborate here, pls?

Lets look at how trade works in the real world...

Say you produce an item and want to sell that, you have some costs that determine what price you can sell the item at:
- Production cost
- Transport cost
- Sales cost
- plus a profit

You'll have a minimum price that you can not go below without losing money. The same is true for all your competitors.

In the PoE economy, the first two of the above are ZERO. You get the items for free, and you don't have to transport them. The only 'cost' you have is the effort (and time) you have to put into selling them. This is fairly high due to the trade system, which then sets the price.

Because of this high sales 'cost', very few people actually try to sell their 'good' (not BiS) items at all, but these items are actually abundant in PoE.

Now, remove the sales cost, what would happen? That's right, every trading player would put up everything they thought would sell, and also a shedload of stuff that might sell once in a blue moon and so on. The prices would be forced down to almost nothing, just above vendor cost even for stuff that would currently sell at 10s of Chaos, simply because the market would be flooded.

That is the scenario that the current system is designed to avoid, and GGG would be mad to abandon it... and they're well aware of that.

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

When you introduce auto trade that makes the items sell faster it causes to drop prices in exchange. To be able to match with fast trades sellers has to make up by dropping prices. Its pretty common in trades. When you give easy access to a product the prices tend to drop because of this easy access.
Human element in current trade system provides a price wall to items thus making them somewhat heavy in price.

Disagree.
1. If I see that this item is in a great demand, I (as a seller) will increase the price!
2. If you are afraid that many trades will inflate the market. It is also wrong. It is not possible undervalue good item!

"

Apachy wrote:

"

MrsDeath_ wrote:

When you introduce auto trade that makes the items sell faster it causes to drop prices in exchange. To be able to match with fast trades sellers has to make up by dropping prices. Its pretty common in trades. When you give easy access to a product the prices tend to drop because of this easy access.
Human element in current trade system provides a price wall to items thus making them somewhat heavy in price.

Disagree.
1. If I see that this item is in a great demand, I (as a seller) will increase the price!
2. If you are afraid that many trades will inflate the market. It is also wrong. It is not possible undervalue good item!

You as a seller, along with thousands of other sellers undercutting you and each other. Good luck. :)

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Xavathos wrote:

You as a seller, along with thousands of other sellers undercutting you and each other. Good luck. :)

At least i would be able to actually buy the item from undercutting sellers, so they have to chose between sell faster and sell for higher price, while now they just posting items with bullshit prices and never sell them for that price, at the same moment buying similar items for low prices from people who got fooled by their "offers".

The same undercutting and market manipulation but with no cost for them whatsoever. Current system can be liked only by people who make profit abusing its flaws.

"

Apachy wrote:

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

When you introduce auto trade that makes the items sell faster it causes to drop prices in exchange. To be able to match with fast trades sellers has to make up by dropping prices. Its pretty common in trades. When you give easy access to a product the prices tend to drop because of this easy access.
Human element in current trade system provides a price wall to items thus making them somewhat heavy in price.

Disagree.
1. If I see that this item is in a great demand, I (as a seller) will increase the price!
2. If you are afraid that many trades will inflate the market. It is also wrong. It is not possible undervalue good item!

demand stays the same. cuz of easy trade there would be many more sellers therefore many more items. thus making prices go down.

yes it is possible to undervalue good items. it happens every day with price fixing. a stranger to the market value would greatly misprice their item.

"

The same undercutting and market manipulation but with no cost for them whatsoever. Current system can be liked only by people who make profit abusing its flaws.

this is one pretty ignorant statement. just like others came before.

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

this is one pretty ignorant statement. just like others came before.

And still no sane argument. GGG's White knight on his duty, what a splendid show! You were going to ignore btw, so please be kind do that.


ps.

Also

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

most of the players do not trade because they dont care about getting end-gear or they play ssf.

and

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

cuz of easy trade there would be many more sellers therefore many more items.

So why don't most players trade, they don't care about end-gear or because of shitty "hard" trade?

It's rhetorical question, I don't expect any sane answer anyway.

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MaxGor31 wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

You as a seller, along with thousands of other sellers undercutting you and each other. Good luck. :)

At least i would be able to actually buy the item from undercutting sellers, so they have to chose between sell faster and sell for higher price.

That sounds great and all, but what about the giant fallacy in your theory? You know, the one where you say you're going to proceed to sell the item you bought cheap for a higher price.

Sell… to whom? Literally everyone is cheaper than you offering the same item. Why buy from you?

Look at the market on Steam for emotes and backgrounds. ALL the common ones are 3 cents, because that's the minimum price you can set it at. It would be lower still if Valve allowed it. The only items slightly above the 3 cent mark are trading cards, as they are consumable.

The only reason people sell those at all is because it's automated. You really think people would sit in a hideout all day to sell 3 cent emotes if that's what it took? Of course not. This is the cost of trading many have tried to explain to you. A cost that would disappear completely in an automated system, as seen on Steam market.

The same would happen to items in PoE. Items that currently don't even see the light of day, would break the economy. And that's just an example with gear in mind, don't even get me started on maps, fragments and especially currency orbs.

I'm not saying the current trade system is perfect, I'd be a fool to say that, because I realise that it's imperfect by design.

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Xavathos wrote:

Sell… to whom? Literally everyone is cheaper than you offering the same item. Why buy from you?

Because literally everyone who offers cheaper are price fixers and they don't actualy sell. They just pretend the item costs that much to buy it from inexpirienced players. When anybody wants to buy something popular he PMs first 10+ people just to realise they don't sell, they don't even respond. But those who sell sell for real price that is substancially higher.

Ofcourse those unexperienced players sell too but the same moment they place item on trade they get 999999 messages from "pro traders" (i call them scummers). So if you see something popular for a good price and placed 10min+ ago it's either sold or just scum.

PS.

Yesterday I placed Maraketh splinters for 2c a piece. There were dozens of offers cheaper and with huge amounts. And guess what - i sold them in next 30min, that's about the time needed for item to load and for people to PM through all the price fixing trash to real seller.

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MaxGor31 wrote:

Because literally everyone who offers cheaper are price fixers and they don't actualy sell.

If there was an automated AH, the amount of sellers would multiply by at least 1000, probably more since the sales cost would go away.
The ones cheaper than you would not be price fixers, but just other players wanting to sell something similar to what you have, but since the number of buyers haven't increased at all, prices would rock-bottom. For anything but BiS items, they'd be just above vendor price as that would set the floor.

In essence, none of your comments show you have any actual knowledge about how an economy works with regard to buying and selling, and you voluntarily expose that with every comment... Well done :-)

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MaxGor31 wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

Sell… to whom? Literally everyone is cheaper than you offering the same item. Why buy from you?

Because literally everyone who offers cheaper are price fixers and they don't actualy sell. They just pretend the item costs that much to buy it from inexpirienced players. When anybody wants to buy something popular he PMs first 10+ people just to realise they don't sell, they don't even respond. But those who sell sell for real price that is substancially higher.

Ofcourse those unexperienced players sell too but the same moment they place item on trade they get 999999 messages from "pro traders" (i call them scummers). So if you see something popular for a good price and placed 10min+ ago it's either sold or just scum.

PS.

Yesterday I placed Maraketh splinters for 2c a piece. There were dozens of offers cheaper and with huge amounts. And guess what - i sold them in next 30min, that's about the time needed for item to load and for people to PM through all the price fixing trash to real seller.

Price fixers on an auction house? What? Now you're back to talking about our current trading system. Dude… I guess this is one way to get nowhere.