CI and stun

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Moosifer wrote:

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casval776 wrote:

I love when people quote half of the full statement and still fail to understand the stupid amount of sarcasm that went into typing it.

You're repeating the same garbage over and over again. I probably have more experience with CI and life/es toons than you I've never used chayula or DF or any other unique of the sorts. I was able to accept that having 8k ES and never being one shot, or 5-8 shot meant even if I was stunned I would probably be able to escape. But like other good CI players I knew not to spec into CI until I had the gear that allowed me to, which for me was no less than 4k ES.

Like I said, crystal skin I'm fine with but changing the stun mechanic just for CI users or ES users because low life builds are in a similar situation makes ES a much better option than armor or evasion. If you can't see that, well I guess I don't care because the devs are on my side.

Again, not the point of the thread but whatever floats your boat.

Id like to know the number of GGG devs who have CI and waste their passive points on getting enough life nodes to not be perma stunned. Bet that number is ZERO because no one is gonna be dumb enough to do that.

GGGs response is always "it is based on your HP that you would have, not 1" yes we all KNOW this...but it doesnt make a difference unless you gimp your whole build and take 10+ life nodes lmao....

As if having 1 HP and dedicating 35%+ of your build to ES nodes isnt enough downsides...

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Velrik wrote:

when u have 1 hp with CI EVERYTHING stuns you.

This is not true.
CI calculates stun, and elemental status ailments, based on the 'actual' life value you would have, ignoring CI's setting it to one. These things never use 1 life in these calculations.

Taking CI does not in any way make you more vulnerable to stuns or elemental status ailments than the same build would be without CI.

^ very true. But... before i make my statement i do not mean to take your quote out of context "if thats what it appears i have done" but more so just make a point.

... But taking CI also means you are required to gear differently "replacing +health with +es for example. as a CI spec player, you cannot make heath nodes viable for this very reason. so you end up with 1k health MAX. I propose that CI its self doesnt make you more venerable, but gearing for CI does in fact not only does it end in making u more vulnerable to stuns and elemental status ailments... but then you also get the added bonus of CI having little to No EHP beyond their base ES. gearing for high ES is kinda of a requirement thus the player is left with no health "less than 600". no armor no eva and no use of healing potions. for the occasionally useful immune to chaos >.<

after my last death in a 68map on HC id sure like to see CI be viable.. since i got 1 shot crit by an alchemist bomb.

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casval776 wrote:

Again, not the point of the thread but whatever floats your boat.

Ok then, as you've become the OP. What's your proposal for change? What exactly do you want to change? I'm sick of talking vaguely about general mechanics, tell me details.

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Moosifer wrote:

This keeps getting under my skin

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casval776 wrote:

1) When you take CI, ES = Life

ES =/= Life

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2) Having stun calculation based on a stat you don't use = waste

You use life, you cannot be alive in the game without life. Stacking something and using are two different thing.

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3) Having stun calculation based on a stat you DO use = good

I use armor, I want it based off armor.

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4) Balancing Life, ES, AR or EV, and Damage = Not possible

Because 3 of those are defensive measures, one is life. ES should be balanced with armor and evasion, NOT LIFE.

Armor - good against frequent small hits
Evasion - good at avoiding hard hits
ES - Absorbs all damage but is finite and hard to recover

ES functions SIMILAR to life, but is not life.

I'm all for adding crystal skin closer to CI but the idea of just turning ES into life makes no sense. Also makes ES gear WAY better than armor or evasion, when right now it's already better.

You keep insisting that ES and life are different, that ES is a "defense mechanic". Can you tell me how they aren't the same thing, other than the fact that health can be regenerated at any and all times with leech, flasks, regen from items and passives, etc.
ES operates the exact same way, but cannot be regenerated without passives to convert regen mechanics from life to ES (barring flasks), or running away for 6 seconds.
As a defense mechanic, what % of incoming damage does my ES reduce? None? Oh, how weird for a defense mechanic.

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f0xx wrote:

You don't want to be stunned -> there's an amulet and a passive ability that make you "unstunnable"

You don't want to be frozen -> there are boots and a ring that make "unfreezable"

You don't want to be shocked -> there's a cap that makes you "unshockable"

You don't want to be set on fire -> guess what... there's an item for that too.


Not just that, but having ES alone reduces your stun chance by 50%.

You want easy gameplay, go find another game.

Please tell me how many low level shitty uniques you are forced to use (making each slot taken by them all but worthless) in order to just survive getting hit once?
I say once, because after that first hit, if that precious 50% chance fails, you're going to be frozen/stunned/whatever for the max duration, and everything else is going to hit you, lengthening that effect again, etc, until you're dead.
Yes, there is a 50% chance to avoid stun. And that's it. That leaves a 50% chance each time you're hit for the above scenario to play out.

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Nyraeus wrote:

You keep insisting that ES and life are different, that ES is a "defense mechanic". Can you tell me how they aren't the same thing, other than the fact that health can be regenerated at any and all times with leech, flasks, regen from items and passives, etc.
ES operates the exact same way, but cannot be regenerated without passives to convert regen mechanics from life to ES (barring flasks), or running away for 6 seconds.
As a defense mechanic, what % of incoming damage does my ES reduce? None? Oh, how weird for a defense mechanic.

If armor, evasion or ES fail, you don't die. If life "fails" you wake up in town. Like I said, just because they function similarly doesn't mean they are the same thing.

If you want to run CI you have to deal with the negatives of CI lol.
All I had to do was get Unwavering Stance, Ghost Reaver, Vaal Pact, Dream fragments, then 75% Chance to Avoid Shock and 55% Chance to avoid Chilled in the passive tree to be able to run an effective melee CI build.

I kinda like these solutions to lowering the chance you'll be stunned though lol!

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Nyraeus wrote:

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f0xx wrote:

You don't want to be stunned -> there's an amulet and a passive ability that make you "unstunnable"

You don't want to be frozen -> there are boots and a ring that make "unfreezable"

You don't want to be shocked -> there's a cap that makes you "unshockable"

You don't want to be set on fire -> guess what... there's an item for that too.


Not just that, but having ES alone reduces your stun chance by 50%.

You want easy gameplay, go find another game.

Please tell me how many low level shitty uniques you are forced to use (making each slot taken by them all but worthless) in order to just survive getting hit once?
I say once, because after that first hit, if that precious 50% chance fails, you're going to be frozen/stunned/whatever for the max duration, and everything else is going to hit you, lengthening that effect again, etc, until you're dead.
Yes, there is a 50% chance to avoid stun. And that's it. That leaves a 50% chance each time you're hit for the above scenario to play out.

^If you have dream fragments you don't get frozen at all, if you have chayulas or unwavering stance you don't get stunned at all. It looks pretty clear cut to me from the way f0xx wrote it, but it seemed like you didn't understand so I thought I would clarify that for you.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Velrik wrote:

when u have 1 hp with CI EVERYTHING stuns you.

This is not true.
CI calculates stun, and elemental status ailments, based on the 'actual' life value you would have, ignoring CI's setting it to one. These things never use 1 life in these calculations.

Taking CI does not in any way make you more vulnerable to stuns or elemental status ailments than the same build would be without CI.

Sorry but if this is true, the mechanic is completely stupid. Since CI Players wont stack Life in the Passive Tree or on items. So if you calculate the amount of life a player would have of course this value will be so low that players get stunned, burned, frozen ...whatever...

It's kind of stupid when I get frozen by a white seawitch with 83 Max Resists.

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gabbagab wrote:

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Velrik wrote:

when u have 1 hp with CI EVERYTHING stuns you.

This is not true.
CI calculates stun, and elemental status ailments, based on the 'actual' life value you would have, ignoring CI's setting it to one. These things never use 1 life in these calculations.

Taking CI does not in any way make you more vulnerable to stuns or elemental status ailments than the same build would be without CI.

Sorry but if this is true, the mechanic is completely stupid. Since CI Players wont stack Life in the Passive Tree or on items. So if you calculate the amount of life a player would have of course this value will be so low that players get stunned, burned, frozen ...whatever...

It's kind of stupid when I get frozen by a white seawitch with 83 Max Resists.

Why is it stupid for something powerful to have a drawback?

If stun/freeze/shock duration were calculated off max ES instead of max life, a huge imbalance would be created. Why would anyone spec into life nodes if they could just spec into ES + CI and have twice as much effective life.

Doesn't anyone get that?? People are raging and demanding GGG change this, and even going so far as to call it a "stupid mechanic" when it is literally the only real drawback remaining for CI users. Use some common sense here folks. Balance cannot be achieved if the most powerful option has no real drawbacks.