CI and stun

I really don't get this issue.

We all know how CI currently works in terms of stuns and elemental status effects and we still have a choice to go either CI or HP or HP+ES. Whats the issue?

Basing stun and elemental ailment calculations on total ES, (with CI), would be crazy OP'ed in my humble opinion and I hope that for whatever past reason that it works the way that it currently does, that it doesn't get changed.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

Taking CI does not in any way make you more vulnerable to stuns or elemental status ailments than the same build would be without CI.

It kinda does because w/o CI the build would be completely different and encompass HP nodes. the "same" build w/o CI wouldn't be viable. Maybe im overlooking certain things?

Didnt they just add a +more ES right behind CI in the last patch? Cant you take less raw ES and and take some life so you have some stun resistance and still have the old ES? Or travel down the shadow passives which have some stun resisting nodes. Make some compromises?

It's not like you are in melee, deal next do no damage even when 2handed and get melted in 2 hits.

"

BazzV5 wrote:

I really don't get this issue.

We all know how CI currently works in terms of stuns and elemental status effects and we still have a choice to go either CI or HP or HP+ES. Whats the issue?

Basing stun and elemental ailment calculations on total ES, (with CI), would be crazy OP'ed in my humble opinion and I hope that for whatever past reason that it works the way that it currently does, that it doesn't get changed.

Stuns/Freezing/etc

current calculation is as follows (as per wiki)

stun_chance = 200 * damage / defender_effective_max_life

It should be based on a calculation like this:

Stun_chance = X # * damage / (50% armor + 50% Evasion + 50% ES)

or

Stun_chance = X # * damage / (50% life + 50% ES)


^^^The above 2 formulas work for ALL builds (CI/BM/regular)^^^

It should not be based on Effective max life...period.

PS the 2nd formula works for mobs

You need to stack HP nodes, even with CI, because how much HP determines how long Stun affects you. Even if you get nothing out of it in terms of points, it's still used for resists and stun.

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Nagisawa wrote:

You need to stack HP nodes, even with CI, because how much HP determines how long Stun affects you. Even if you get nothing out of it in terms of points, it's still used for resists and stun.

^^^ This is EXACTLY why it's WRONG!!!! ^^^

Would you ask Blood Magic users to Stack some ES nodes? really sir... did you even read the thread?

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Josephoenix wrote:

"

BazzV5 wrote:

I really don't get this issue.

We all know how CI currently works in terms of stuns and elemental status effects and we still have a choice to go either CI or HP or HP+ES. Whats the issue?

Basing stun and elemental ailment calculations on total ES, (with CI), would be crazy OP'ed in my humble opinion and I hope that for whatever past reason that it works the way that it currently does, that it doesn't get changed.

Stuns/Freezing/etc

current calculation is as follows (as per wiki)

stun_chance = 200 * damage / defender_effective_max_life

It should be based on a calculation like this:

Stun_chance = X # * damage / (50% armor + 50% Evasion + 50% ES)

or

Stun_chance = X # * damage / (50% life + 50% ES)


^^^The above 2 formulas work for ALL builds (CI/BM/regular)^^^

It should not be based on Effective max life...period.

PS the 2nd formula works for mobs

I know what you're asking for but I don't understand why?

It appears to be a plea for an easier play through?

I love CI, (even before the new ES nodes were introduced), and see it as a great alternative to HP builds. Less passive nodes required, compared to a HP build, means more passives can be allocated to attack nodes. Complete immunity to Chaos damage means more freedom choosing items for all equipment slots. No requirement for HP pots means more options for filling flask slots.

I mean these are just some of the reasons why I prefer CI to HP builds. For those that don't value these advantages there's always HP or HP+ES.

I guess I just don't get why people can't accept the downsides that comes with upsides of CI....it's good feedback for devs I guess but it's also asking for the best of both worlds just to make the game easier.

then change my formulae to say 25% ES... Point is Bazz, like my post about BM needing ES nodes (nonsense)... Is that just because someone goes CI, shouldn't mean they NEED life nodes, or life on gear (trust me they need ES, mana resists etc).

But by choosing CI (yes there are perks) they are basically on the road to stun/freeze lock death, due to a mechanic "error" (<- imo).

This *oversight* shouldn't: completely rob (or almost) of their ability to avoid stun or status ailments (yes having some CI does give a roll against this,... before someone jumps on me).

There must be a way for all viable builds (sorry decoy totem + freeze mine build) to have a little cake and eat a bite or two.

CI is like being given a HUGE cake... and not allowed to eat it.
HP builds are given some cake and can eat it ALL.
Hp/ES builds (without certain *new* uniques) are given some cake and allowed to eat some.

^^^ above is a reference to stuns/status ailments only... however can probably be used to describe a lot more.

"

BazzV5 wrote:

I know what you're asking for but I don't understand why?

It appears to be a plea for an easier play through?

I love CI, (even before the new ES nodes were introduced), and see it as a great alternative to HP builds. Less passive nodes required, compared to a HP build, means more passives can be allocated to attack nodes. Complete immunity to Chaos damage means more freedom choosing items for all equipment slots. No requirement for HP pots means more options for filling flask slots.

I mean these are just some of the reasons why I prefer CI to HP builds. For those that don't value these advantages there's always HP or HP+ES.

I guess I just don't get why people can't accept the downsides that comes with upsides of CI....it's good feedback for devs I guess but it's also asking for the best of both worlds just to make the game easier.

The downside of taking CI, and I'm not sure why people seem to overlook this...is that you HAVE ONLY ONE LIFE POINT!

ONE!

"Less passive nodes required"

Really...why?

" Complete immunity to Chaos damage means more freedom choosing items for all equipment slots"
Replace "chaos res" for "ES%" and "+ES"

"No requirement for HP pots means more options for filling flask slots."
Which also ignore that we have no mitigation for ES loss, other then running away.

I honestly don't get these threads, you are just asking for the game to be easier and not accepting that every advantage comes with a disadvantage.

CI can use leech, regen and is generally a larger pool than life, more gear dependent so you can use passives else where. The drawback is dealing with stun, status ailments and not having flasks when spots get tough (but you have a larger pool so being one shot without escape is not as common as it is with life).

People are asking for stun/ailments to be based off ES and other threads ask for ES flasks, this makes ES into life when it's not. If you add these things in there comes a point where all builds would be better with CI. As you get extremely high end gear you can have a very large health pool, because of it you'd never be stunned and could you regen it in every way life user could. There ends up being no difference between ES and life.

The problem with that is ES is a defensive mechanic, it should be in line with armor and evasion. If you stacked only armor and no life it would come with the same drawbacks. The real problem is how ineffective armor is compared to ES so no one would ever do such a thing therefore no one is complaining.