CI and stun

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Aelloon wrote:

The reason why it's a "glass cannon" in terms of passive usage is that there's way fewer ES nodes and they're very far from each other. Look at Body & Soul and Nullification: they're on the opposite sides of the tree. You need over 16 passive points to get from one of those to the other.

But I think the stun problem isn't as big as people make it out to be: you can get a Chayula (and you should) or Unwavering Stance, not to mention that ES gives you a 50% chance to avoid stuns. The problem I think with CI is status ailments: Burn is okay, Freeze is KIND OF okay because you're going to use a dream fragments but Shock and Chill are not that okay.

Shock and Chill essentially mean you're not really going to play CI as a melee.

PS: You need two uniques to do a CI build properly (usually): Chayula and Dream Fragments, so I see that your point about a Kaom's is pretty moot.

My 4k duelist in CB was killed more often than my 8k CI shadow who didn't use chayula or DF. If I got kaoms for the duelist (at the time there was ONE on the server that I sold for a friend for 180 gcps) and chayula/DF on my shadow they would have been equally unkillable. The difference is, kaoms cost like 35 exalts and chayula + DF cost 3. The other difference, my CI shadow had much higher DPS to go along with that high EHP.

There's also been 3-4 top CI players, ones who's builds are popular in fact, that have said in this thread they don't use chayula or DF.

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Moosifer wrote:

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Aelloon wrote:

The reason why it's a "glass cannon" in terms of passive usage is that there's way fewer ES nodes and they're very far from each other. Look at Body & Soul and Nullification: they're on the opposite sides of the tree. You need over 16 passive points to get from one of those to the other.

But I think the stun problem isn't as big as people make it out to be: you can get a Chayula (and you should) or Unwavering Stance, not to mention that ES gives you a 50% chance to avoid stuns. The problem I think with CI is status ailments: Burn is okay, Freeze is KIND OF okay because you're going to use a dream fragments but Shock and Chill are not that okay.

Shock and Chill essentially mean you're not really going to play CI as a melee.

PS: You need two uniques to do a CI build properly (usually): Chayula and Dream Fragments, so I see that your point about a Kaom's is pretty moot.

My 4k duelist in CB was killed more often than my 8k CI shadow who didn't use chayula or DF. If I got kaoms for the duelist (at the time there was ONE on the server that I sold for a friend for 180 gcps) and chayula/DF on my shadow they would have been equally unkillable. The difference is, kaoms cost like 35 exalts and chayula + DF cost 3. The other difference, my CI shadow had much higher DPS to go along with that high EHP.

There's also been 3-4 top CI players, ones who's builds are popular in fact, that have said in this thread they don't use chayula or DF.

You mean the guys who are dual totem and similar builds? The same guys who couldn't even go close to temple piety because they were afraid of almost instantly dying? Because that's what those people essentially were.

Also, I don't know how much harder health was to get in CB, but right now 4k health would be nowhere near equal to 8k CI. Try at least 5k health.

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Skyfruit wrote:

I fundamentally disagree with anybody saying that you should get Eye of Chayula only to make CI work. You don't have to get very rare item only to make life build work, could you image that?

CI should be more broadly available build not interlocked with any specific, especially very rare item. You don't need any specific item for RT or US or VP or BM. You need one for pain attunement, but that was ridiculously lousy. Why CI shouldn't be more available like other key nodes?

So naturally I need to know. Did you ignore my last reply or just choose to pretend like I didn't say "who didn't use chayula or DF" twice?

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Aelloon wrote:

You mean the guys who are dual totem and similar builds? The same guys who couldn't even go close to temple piety because they were afraid of almost instantly dying? Because that's what those people essentially were.

Also, I don't know how much harder health was to get in CB, but right now 4k health would be nowhere near equal to 8k CI. Try at least 5k health.

Life = 2x ES, fairly standard. Life has ways of recovering it so they don't need so much on hand. Because CI doesn't, having double the amount life has means they won't get one shot.

I'm literally just repeating myself at this point. I need to stop. Every time one of you guys logs off someone takes their place. Rather than me picking up where I left off in the discussion I just start over again. I'm done, I hope the devs stick to their guns.

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Skyfruit wrote:

I fundamentally disagree with anybody saying that you should get Eye of Chayula only to make CI work. You don't have to get very rare item only to make life build work, could you image that?

Yes, and that's why no one uses IK sets in D3, or Chantodoos as a CM wizz, or Enigma in D2, can you imagine??

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Moosifer wrote:

Man I just told razor I hope I get put on probation so I don't have to deal with this anymore, maybe it will come true.

I've given a plethora of reasons it works the way it does, ways to get around it and explained how CI is already powerful enough with it's only major drawback in the end being an inability to use flasks for EHP recovery, dealing with stun (without help) and status ailments.

If you refuse to listen to any of it and consider what I'm doing as trolling so be it, I just don't care. You literally will not listen to anything that disagrees with your POV as rather than engaging in the conversation you just repeat yourself as if we don't understand.

It's so fun to see that you criticize people for doing what you are doing right now.
You basically refuse to move a single centimeter from your POV, and you blame other people
as stupid because they don't move from their POV.
Are you really that blind?

No wonder you named one of your chars over Mussolini (Moosolini), in other games people like you get permabanned without a second thought.

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Moosifer wrote:

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Skyfruit wrote:

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sanleon wrote:

The point is people want to have 10k ES with no stuns or something :S

If you dont like stuns ----------> Go life and stfu. Or use chayula which is sick amu


This post is fun

The point is people want have 7k life and 20k armour with no stuns/freezes/chills/burns/shocks or something, and they have it NOW.

7k life requires a very rare unique or an extreme passive investment. You can get 10k ES while still being a "glass cannon" tree wise. No 7k life/20k armor build would be considered remotely glass cannon on their tree, even with kaoms.

Yeah Kaom's heart is soooo rare, while 900-1000k chest are very common, you drop them 10 each day, they cost 2 chaos in the market.
Stupid me that i thought they costed like a Kaoms (as everyone that has as Chest like that makes it 6L).

OH, about the passive tree investment, you reach 10k ES with just 2-3 passive points spent, it's a lie that you need 45-50+ points (what are 45-50 points wasted on ES, noooothing).


From what i read, people, you are still on CB balance, and didn't understand that 10k ES is not obtainable without buying 80% of the ES wheels in the entire Skill tree(it's hard to buy 100% without forfeiting to do an actual playable build) and with items that cost a mirror.