CI and stun

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casval776 wrote:

You're not arguing the point of the thread. That's why I have to sit here and repeat the same thing over and over: because you're not getting it. The thread isn't about other ES stacking builds, it's about CI. If you can't argue on topic, fuck off.

I am argueing for why the current topic of the thread is stupid. If you would just read this one quote from one of my previous posts you really should be able to understand it.

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Grildrak wrote:

If I made a topic saying build foo needs a buff against bar and someone point out to me that build baz shares the exact same problem because the problem is in game mechanic qux then I would acknowledge that it is not a foo and bar problem. All I am trying to do here is to make you acknowledge that it is not a CI and stun issue but a ES and stun issue.

I am leaving this now it is impossible to fight internet stupidity:(

This keeps getting under my skin

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casval776 wrote:

1) When you take CI, ES = Life

ES =/= Life

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2) Having stun calculation based on a stat you don't use = waste

You use life, you cannot be alive in the game without life. Stacking something and using are two different thing.

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3) Having stun calculation based on a stat you DO use = good

I use armor, I want it based off armor.

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4) Balancing Life, ES, AR or EV, and Damage = Not possible

Because 3 of those are defensive measures, one is life. ES should be balanced with armor and evasion, NOT LIFE.

Armor - good against frequent small hits
Evasion - good at avoiding hard hits
ES - Absorbs all damage but is finite and hard to recover

ES functions SIMILAR to life, but is not life.

I'm all for adding crystal skin closer to CI but the idea of just turning ES into life makes no sense. Also makes ES gear WAY better than armor or evasion, when right now it's already better.

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Grildrak wrote:

And in the end I like it when the game forces you to think about how to play and not just lets you run around spamming your best aoe skill without any concern. Positioning should imo be an important part of the game. (Had I had it my way all aoe skills would also have there cost increased by ~100% at least, forcing the player to make a decision of where and when to use them (that is why I love incinerate as it is really awesome at the right times but you have to think about when to use it). Skills should be involved in playing a character not just planing it.

This first bold is incorrect. You're not 'thinking' you're micromanaging you Passive Skill points, that's it.

And the second bold, do you actually PLAY Path of Exile, because as it stands right now, this is EXACTLY what the 'top' players of the game DO. And they're the top because they're at the highest level so far in the game. Simply because they found the magic formula to turn the game into 'easy mode'. Which is pure Life nodes and ranged combat.

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Moosifer wrote:

This keeps getting under my skin

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casval776 wrote:

1) When you take CI, ES = Life

ES =/= Life

Your ES effectively is your life. I'm not saying it completely replaces it but with 0 ES, any hit from any mob in the game is going to kill you.

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Moosifer wrote:

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2) Having stun calculation based on a stat you don't use = waste

You use life, you cannot be alive in the game without life. Stacking something and using are two different thing.

You don't use life with CI. It's pretty binary: You're either alive or dead. If your life was higher than 1, you'd be using it. Life mods and passives do not benefit CI users.

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Moosifer wrote:

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3) Having stun calculation based on a stat you DO use = good

I use armor, I want it based off armor.

And I want someone to post in these threads with a sense of fucking context. That's obviously not happening, is it?

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Moosifer wrote:

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4) Balancing Life, ES, AR or EV, and Damage = Not possible

Because 3 of those are defensive measures, one is life. ES should be balanced with armor and evasion, NOT LIFE.

That's the point, smart guy. Going off of Mark's post, the implementation is intentional. Stun calculations based off Life is supposed to happen whether you take CI or not. So, he's pretty much saying regardless of whether you take CI or not, you're gonna have to stack Life to get around that.

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Moosifer wrote:

I'm all for adding crystal skin closer to CI but the idea of just turning ES into life makes no sense. Also makes ES gear WAY better than armor or evasion, when right now it's already better.

Yea man, that's why all the top 10 players stack Life/ES with 0 armor or evasion. Totally makes sense, right?

I swear to fucking God, ES is just a buffer, like life. It's not defense, that's what armor and evasion is. How hard is it to understand?

Actually one of them only stacks life, no armor and his ES goes to mana as he uses Eldritch Battery. He is surviving. He is however, dual totems.

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Nagisawa wrote:

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Grildrak wrote:

And in the end I like it when the game forces you to think about how to play and not just lets you run around spamming your best aoe skill without any concern. Positioning should imo be an important part of the game. (Had I had it my way all aoe skills would also have there cost increased by ~100% at least, forcing the player to make a decision of where and when to use them (that is why I love incinerate as it is really awesome at the right times but you have to think about when to use it). Skills should be involved in playing a character not just planing it.

This first bold is incorrect. You're not 'thinking' you're micromanaging you Passive Skill points, that's it.

And the second bold, do you actually PLAY Path of Exile, because as it stands right now, this is EXACTLY what the 'top' players of the game DO. And they're the top because they're at the highest level so far in the game. Simply because they found the magic formula to turn the game into 'easy mode'. Which is pure Life nodes and ranged combat.

You missed the "I like it when" part of my post. Because I do like it when games forces you to think, noting incorrect about that. I didn't say this game actually forces you to think a lot when playing (build planing is not playing).

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Velrik wrote:

when u have 1 hp with CI EVERYTHING stuns you.

This is not true.
CI calculates stun, and elemental status ailments, based on the 'actual' life value you would have, ignoring CI's setting it to one. These things never use 1 life in these calculations.

Taking CI does not in any way make you more vulnerable to stuns or elemental status ailments than the same build would be without CI.

Okay, that last statement is entirely true, but not at all relevant. Using a CI build without CI is suicide and everyone knows it. The builds that don't use CI stack life in order to survive, and in turn become less vulnerable to stuns without going out of their way to do so. I can't believe you guys can't understand the issue here.

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casval776 wrote:

Yea man, that's why all the top 10 players stack Life/ES with 0 armor or evasion. Totally makes sense, right?

I love when people cite the top 10 towards why things are how they are at this time. The problem with ES users is they always take longer to get up to speed. They are more gear dependent. When CI was OP in CB the first 4-5 days of a week race it would be all GS maras by day 5-7 summoners and FP CI witches would start sneaking in. While it's not as extreme as it was before you can already see templars and shadows working their way into the top.

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Moosifer wrote:

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casval776 wrote:

Yea man, that's why all the top 10 players stack Life/ES with 0 armor or evasion. Totally makes sense, right?

I love when people cite the top 10 towards why things are how they are at this time. The problem with ES users is they always take longer to get up to speed. They are more gear dependent. When CI was OP in CB the first 4-5 days of a week race it would be all GS maras by day 5-7 summoners and FP CI witches would start sneaking in. While it's not as extreme as it was before you can already see templars and shadows working their way into the top.

I love when people quote half of the full statement and still fail to understand the stupid amount of sarcasm that went into typing it.

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casval776 wrote:

I love when people quote half of the full statement and still fail to understand the stupid amount of sarcasm that went into typing it.

You're repeating the same garbage over and over again. I probably have more experience with CI and life/es toons than you I've never used chayula or DF or any other unique of the sorts. I was able to accept that having 8k ES and never being one shot, or 5-8 shot meant even if I was stunned I would probably be able to escape. But like other good CI players I knew not to spec into CI until I had the gear that allowed me to, which for me was no less than 4k ES.

Like I said, crystal skin I'm fine with but changing the stun mechanic just for CI users or ES users because low life builds are in a similar situation makes ES a much better option than armor or evasion. If you can't see that, well I guess I don't care because the devs are on my side.