CI and stun

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raz0r_boy wrote:

I didn't say it was THE solution, just A solution..and you don't even have to use that solution...
The thing is, you CAN counter all of the negatives of CI, it's just that people aren't prepared to do what's neccesary.

Its not even "A" solution. Spending 25 points just to make CI work. Yeah, right. Great idea. Just like giving up a ring and the neck slot to counter stuns and frozen.

U could as well say "spell xy is not underpowered u just have to give up some life nodes for more crit / multi / dmg nodes. There, fixed it for ya... U're not prepared to do that? Well that's your problem, the spell is fine." Sorry but you're full of shit, man.

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SpecialSnowflake wrote:

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raz0r_boy wrote:

I didn't say it was THE solution, just A solution..and you don't even have to use that solution...
The thing is, you CAN counter all of the negatives of CI, it's just that people aren't prepared to do what's neccesary.

Its not even "A" solution. Spending 25 points just to make CI work. Yeah, right. Great idea. Just like giving up a ring and the neck slot to counter stuns and frozen.

U could as well say "spell xy is not underpowered u just have to give up some life nodes for more crit / multi / dmg nodes. There, fixed it for ya... U're not prepared to do that? Well that's your problem, the spell is fine." Sorry but you're full of shit, man.

I'm full of shit? for pointing out the obvious? why thank you good sir.
"Can't stand the head? get out of the kitchen"

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raz0r_boy wrote:

I'm full of shit? for pointing out the obvious? why thank you good sir.
"Can't stand the head? get out of the kitchen"

yeah. You are. With these ridiculous solutions that hurt twice as much as CI benefits.
Ci could just be nerfed and fixed. Because it needs a fix. You either havent tried it or you wanna punish ci users because you think its op anyways. I can't see why else would you defend a broken mechanic.

This is a summary and a edited version of my posts from "Fix CI"



CI Chars are the only "Class" who have to fear stun as well as elemental status ailments, and thats why I was playing a CI Witch in first place, to keep the challange up. I like the mechanics about status ailmants, nevertheless it is a discrimination for CI builds, and the idea to waste points in life nodes to get rid of this handicap is a bigger one.Solution: the stun duration should be depending on max ES/life/armour/evasion, the elemental status ailments should be depending on elemental resists only, for all builds.

Furthermore, you get not muche in exchange for taking CI and surrender your life, only the immunity of chaos damage. When you take all life regen and many of the max life nodes (without CI of course) you are a lot better prepared to survive in Wraeclast because there are so many physical damage dealing mobs. Even most of the chaos damage dealing mobs do additional physical damage(actually the chaos damage per second is correlated to the amount of physical damage which can be reduced from armour), and due to the fact CI chars get not much armour every hit is very painful.For a CI char who is mastering a skill with physical damage, the damage reflect would be suicidal.

Chaos damage isn`t bothering anyone, not even players who dont use CI. They only need -40% chaos resist and a very good life regen, thats it. But the physical damage comes from nearly every mob so CI on it`s own is really weak in defence. And the offens don`t equalizes that disadvantage.

Often there are situations you suffer periodical hits and the only way to survive is closing the game(cooldown isn´t over, life flasks don`t work). More disadvantages are, life can´t be used for mana reserve auras, many uniques and the passive "Pain Attunement" need low life (under 35%) to get it work.

After all I see CI Chars as Glass Cannons, but Glass cannons without extra damage are useless. The only thing making sense with CI is a minion build and in my opinion that is boring, no offence. I hope there will be some changes in the future, while there aren't, I will play without CI, so I don't become too frustrated.

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SpecialSnowflake wrote:

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raz0r_boy wrote:

I'm full of shit? for pointing out the obvious? why thank you good sir.
"Can't stand the head? get out of the kitchen"

yeah. You are. With these ridiculous solutions that hurt twice as much as CI benefits.
Ci could just be nerfed and fixed. Because it needs a fix. You either havent tried it or you wanna punish ci users because you think its op anyways. I can't see why else you would defend a broken mechanic.

I'm using it and have been using it since may 2012, what's your excuse?
I'm gonna state this again, IF you believe that it sucks, is broken, doesn't benefit you <imput bash of your choice> then DON'T use it!
The mechanic is there for a reason, and that is because it would be INSANELY op if it didn't have the downsides you point out..
SOME of us, have taken an active choice of working around the mechanics by one or more of the solutions i have pointed out for you several times, and it's working absolutely great, and has been for a good amount of time, EVEN after the nerf in OB.
Since you obviously have no idea how things were in CB, where EVERYONE would spec CI due to the extreme benefits it had EVEN with the status effects that comes with it, i do NOT se a buff to those parts of the skill, to be neccesary simply because some don't want to invest what it takes to go CI.
I'm not telling you to agree with me, and i'm certainly not calling you, or anyone who disagrees with me "full of shit" for not doing so either, but i am however telling you HOW to make it work, wheter you want to go for that or not...
A "broken" mechanic is imho a mechanic that does not work, either as intended or cannot be worked around..none of that is true for CI.

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raz0r_boy wrote:

I'm using it and have been using it since may 2012, what's your excuse?
I'm gonna state this again, IF you believe that it sucks, is broken, doesn't benefit you <imput bash of your choice> then DON'T use it!
The mechanic is there for a reason, and that is because it would be INSANELY op if it didn't have the downsides you point out..
SOME of us, have taken an active choice of working around the mechanics by one or more of the solutions i have pointed out for you several times, and it's working absolutely great, and has been for a good amount of time, EVEN after the nerf in OB.
Since you obviously have no idea how things were in CB, where EVERYONE would spec CI due to the extreme benefits it had EVEN with the status effects that comes with it, i do NOT se a buff to those parts of the skill, to be neccesary simply because some don't want to invest what it takes to go CI.
I'm not telling you to agree with me, and i'm certainly not calling you, or anyone who disagrees with me "full of shit" for not doing so either, but i am however telling you HOW to make it work, wheter you want to go for that or not...
A "broken" mechanic is imho a mechanic that does not work, either as intended or cannot be worked around..none of that is true for CI.

You just ignore the possibility - for the third time - to NERF ci and then fix the issue where you have to spend points in life nodes even tho your max life is 1. It makes as much sense as not fixing the freezing pulse doorway issues just because "fuck it, freezing pulse is good enough anyway..." but i guess you found your way to adapt to the bad stun mechanics and you don't want it fixed.

I've spent 6 points in life nodes, put some life gear back on and its playable. But i'd still like to see it fixed.

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SpecialSnowflake wrote:

You just ignore the possibility - for the third time - to NERF ci and then fix the issue where you have to spend points in life nodes even tho your max life is 1. It makes as much sense as not fixing the freezing pulse doorway issues just because "fuck it, freezing pulse is good enough anyway..." but i guess you found your way to adapt to the bad stun mechanics and you don't want it fixed.

I've spent 6 points in life nodes, put some life gear back on and its playable. But i'd still like to see it fixed.

You are using a toaster expecting it to be a microwave then calling the manufacture telling them to fix it. Your solution to CI dealing with stun is to make it into life. You want to turn a unique and interesting mechanic into chaos free life.

Use the uniques, use CCs, use stun/block recovery items, use the status ailment avoidance nodes, man up like I did and just get so much ES that even if stunned it won't matter or, just don't use CI. You have options but you refuse to accept any as a solution.

To quote Louis CK "And most people kind of don’t care. Most people are very selfish. Most people don’t give a shit what happens, as long as they get to do their favorite thing. People don’t even wanna back off from their favorite thing. They won’t even do their second favorite thing. . . . That’s not my favorite way, though! That only meets 99% of my criteria."

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Moosifer wrote:

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SpecialSnowflake wrote:

You just ignore the possibility - for the third time - to NERF ci and then fix the issue where you have to spend points in life nodes even tho your max life is 1. It makes as much sense as not fixing the freezing pulse doorway issues just because "fuck it, freezing pulse is good enough anyway..." but i guess you found your way to adapt to the bad stun mechanics and you don't want it fixed.

I've spent 6 points in life nodes, put some life gear back on and its playable. But i'd still like to see it fixed.

You are using a toaster expecting it to be a microwave then calling the manufacture telling them to fix it. Your solution to CI dealing with stun is to make it into life. You want to turn a unique and interesting mechanic into chaos free life.

Use the uniques, use CCs, use stun/block recovery items, use the status ailment avoidance nodes, man up like I did and just get so much ES that even if stunned it won't matter or, just don't use CI. You have options but you refuse to accept any as a solution.

To quote Louis CK "And most people kind of don’t care. Most people are very selfish. Most people don’t give a shit what happens, as long as they get to do their favorite thing. People don’t even wanna back off from their favorite thing. They won’t even do their second favorite thing. . . . That’s not my favorite way, though! That only meets 99% of my criteria."

THANK YOU! Finally..this, exactly this have i been trying to say for the last 6 or so post!

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raz0r_boy wrote:

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Moosifer wrote:

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SpecialSnowflake wrote:

You just ignore the possibility - for the third time - to NERF ci and then fix the issue where you have to spend points in life nodes even tho your max life is 1. It makes as much sense as not fixing the freezing pulse doorway issues just because "fuck it, freezing pulse is good enough anyway..." but i guess you found your way to adapt to the bad stun mechanics and you don't want it fixed.

I've spent 6 points in life nodes, put some life gear back on and its playable. But i'd still like to see it fixed.

You are using a toaster expecting it to be a microwave then calling the manufacture telling them to fix it. Your solution to CI dealing with stun is to make it into life. You want to turn a unique and interesting mechanic into chaos free life.

Use the uniques, use CCs, use stun/block recovery items, use the status ailment avoidance nodes, man up like I did and just get so much ES that even if stunned it won't matter or, just don't use CI. You have options but you refuse to accept any as a solution.
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THANK YOU! Finally..this, exactly this have i been trying to say for the last 6 or so post!

i wonder how many of you would be in the forum whining if they
made Bloodmagic require to stack mana, Resolute technique to require to stack crit chance-accuracy, Acrobatic to require to stack armor-energy shield.

what is a broken mechanic remains a broken mechanic.

you can try to find loopholes and workarounds, but the problem is just the terrible
design of landing status ailments based on HP applied to CI.


P.S.: that design was so terrible with CI, that in CB they had to put 100% more ES, then 50% more ES, then 0% more ES, and now 20% more ES.
CI is nothing near it's final state.
Status ailments were NOT a downside, it was the base mechanic, and they had to put MORE % ES
just to counter that.
then they scaled down the ES rates, as they were totally broken.
0% more ES was broken too, now they are trying with 20% MORE.
still the solution is not near unless they grab some coders, and make them to work so they can link status landing chance to ES instead of HP for CI.
I still don't understand why they are losing time to do it, maybe they are busy with other parts of the game.

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sirianstar wrote:

i wonder how many of you would be in the forum whining if they
made Bloodmagic require to stack mana, Resolute technique to require to stack crit chance-accuracy, Acrobatic to require to stack armor-energy shield.

what is a broken mechanic remains a broken mechanic.

you can try to find loopholes and workarounds, but the problem is just the terrible
design of landing status ailments based on HP applied to CI.

No, it's like using BM and complaining we can use % auras easily. Using RT and complaining about not having crit or using acro and complaining we have no armor. You are mentioning the drawback as the broken mechanic, no it's that way on purpose. Instead of CI clearly stating it like those other keystones, it's something you have to figure out when you realize you don't have life.

edit: You ninja edited on me.

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sirianstar wrote:

P.S.: that design was so terrible with CI, that in CB they had to put 100% more ES, then 50% more ES, then 0% more ES, and now 20% more ES.
CI is nothing near it's final state.
Status ailments were NOT a downside, it was the base mechanic, and they had to put MORE % ES
just to counter that.
then they scaled down the ES rates, as they were totally broken.
0% more ES was broken too, now they are trying with 20% MORE.
still the solution is not near unless they grab some coders, and make them to work so they can link status landing chance to ES instead of HP for CI.
I still don't understand why they are losing time to do it, maybe they are busy with other parts of the game.

When they introduced chain Chris stated that they wanted it to be slightly OP so people used it and they got data/feedback from it. Once they had that info they would scale it back. So following that logic they had CI high and brought it down to 50% which was still high because people were still able to get 14k ES making them invincible. They got rid of the bonus but they also introduced chaos res to the tree so everyone said fuck CI, I'll just get 75% res and not deal with the stun issues. They added back the %ES to make CI more appealing.

If you understand their thinking and see what the leagues had their moves all make sense (besides adding chaos res, I still don't get that one). What doesn't make sense is having ES scale stuns because it isn't life.