GGG do not give in to the crying masses

"

Grildrak wrote:

There is people in every game asking for an easier time, that is nothing special for the games that actually got easier. The important thing is just to determine what is a valid suggestion and what is just someone crying over not succeeding in a game and the OP have imo failed at this and throws even stuff like floating numbers into the list of things making the game casual. I personally don't really care about floating numbers (probably wouldn't use them if I had the option) but if someone wants the possibility I am all for letting them have it.

Aight, im dat blind ey?

But, i think that floating numbers dont belong here. When first i played PoE i was enraged over the lack of health bars for example, created a thread on it and everything, but then one day i simple forgot to care about it anymore and found out that i didnt need those health bars, i had just come to be dependant on something that would clutter up my screen.

Numbers = massive clutter

You have a crit sound and all it's not hard to hear.

While I do agree with OP, floating damage numbers has nothing to do with the game being hardcore...game will still be hard even if we see numbers, hell, we already see our DPS and other number information, yet no one complains about these numbers being carebear or any other ridiculous statements...just because people ask for something doesn't mean it's casual or made for the mass...

If you hate seeing numbers, well...just disable them? (if they ever implement them).

"

Crackmonster wrote:

"

Fivefingerheist wrote:

What does the ability to toggle #'s have to do with anything?

It represents the masses who do not think outside the box, they arrive at the game and if things are not as they are used to they proceed to create posts and whine that it should be so because of lack of freedom of thought.

A post about numbers triggered this thread, with all the memories associated, so it must have some connection in the mind :)

EDIT: I wish i could tell you i didnt care and that they should just make options for all whatever they wanted, but i also know this is what you have to be careful doing as not to open the wrong portals.

"

EvilParfait wrote:

The game was never pushed towards casuals, ever. Ever, ever, ever.

Casuals are PUNISHED for simply looking at the game. They will not cater to them and they never have, don't worry.

Now this is funny. In fact this entire thread is hilarious.

'Not give in to the crying masses' and all I see people with their agreement and their +1 is... Crying masses! You ARE the crying masses because you're so afraid that GGG is going to change the game.

And in the end, what you are saying is that GGG not listen to you guys. Which I'm totally fine with that.

I want GGG to make the best game they can. To make it as fun and viable to as many people as they can.

Right now, all we got are cookie cutter builds that make this game into easy mode. Range boosted Ground Slam or Lightning Strike? Check. Or if not playing a Mar or Temp, go full range, with as many projectiles as you can? Check. Everything else into Life/HP or Life Leech, even if using Chaos Inoculation? Check.

All right! You are go for launch! Congratulations! The game is now EASY MODE! Have fun!

There's no challenge, this is pure casuals stuff. No thinking required, just copy and paste the right nodes, trade for the right gems, and GO GO GO!

I want a game that challenges me, that is fun to beat, not because of the right gems and singular build, but because I have to do a little planning and strategy, not have the right gear.

But that's not what we have now. Thing is, I have faith in Grinding Gear Games, I have confidence that they will see what's wrong and fix it.

This thread is comedy gold, though. Thanks. I needed a laugh today.

+1

Yeah, GGG shouldn't completely alter their vision of the game to cater to some people, at least in a way that would alter their vision

-1
This doesn't mean they should ignore every single suggestion ever, specially the ones that are the most prominent here and not try to improve their game at all and make it more enjoyable for people

So +-0

"

Nagisawa wrote:

I want a game that challenges me, that is fun to beat, not because of the right gems and singular build, but because I have to do a little planning and strategy, not have the right gear.

The game will be as fun and challenging as you allow it to be.

Set yourself free.

Surely there are some facerollish builds out there, and surely the nabcakes are playing them all the time, but does this force you to play them also?

In this game i am sure there will be a near endless amount of completely viablo and different builds coming up even after many years, simply because there is so much more than cookie cutter here if you do want the challenge and don't seek the faceroll.

I'm not quite feeling you bro.

EDIT: But you are also right, they shouldnt listen to me or others much. They should listen to themselves and the feedback that their intuition tells them is correct.

With D3 i could literally make up superior systems to what that game had for itemization, here i just embarrass myself if i try to make better suggestions than what has already been come up with.

There will always be people who cry for nerfs. It's probably human nature, people can't imagine that they are actually bad, so they think the game has to be overtuned since they are doing everything right but are still failing all the time.

t. dunning-kruger

"

Crackmonster wrote:

"

Nagisawa wrote:

I want a game that challenges me, that is fun to beat, not because of the right gems and singular build, but because I have to do a little planning and strategy, not have the right gear.

The game will be as fun and challenging as you allow it to be.

Set yourself free.

Surely there are some facerollish builds out there, and surely the nabcakes are playing them all the time, but does this force you to play them also?

In this game i am sure there will be a near endless amount of completely viablo and different builds coming up even after many years, simply because there is so much more than cookie cutter here if you do want the challenge and don't seek the faceroll.

I'm not quite feeling you bro.

EDIT: But you are also right, they shouldnt listen to me or others much. They should listen to themselves and the feedback that their intuition tells them is correct.

With D3 i could literally make up superior systems to what that game had for itemization, here i just embarrass myself if i try to make better suggestions than what has already been come up with.

Having read Nagisawa's posts and now yours, I don't think there's grounds for any sort of agreement on this matter between you. You both represent polar approaches to gaming.

Nagisawa to me represents that portion of the population that rejects self-challenge and accepts the straight line to victory -- if there is an easymode, use it. It is the devs' fault for putting one in. To this camp, there should be no cookie-cutters, no easily emulated builds. It's a nice ideal but not one that I think particularly realistic. No ARPG to date has been balanced to such a level, certainly not the mighty D2. I believe that the only way to achieve that level of fairness is to look at a game like Chess, where all the pieces for each side are the same and the only difference is who goes first. Unfortunately, many modern games demand a bit more complexity in design than that.

Problem: More complexity, more room for imbalance. More attempts to rectify the balance, more problems created. Nerfs and buffs become the endless game and no one really wins. Some call this 'power creep'; I believe that Chris once referred to it as 'bloat of power'. Either way, for those who feel this game is 'easy', I think the game will always be easy to them because by virtue of how this game is designed, there'll always be straight lines to victory. And once they see those lines in the otherwise convoluted tangle of the Skilldrasil's roots, nothing else matters.

You, on the other hand (and myself), can see the value in an upset balance and interpret it as grounds for exploration. We practice self-regulation and experimentation, and believe in making something challenging by doing it differently. For us, unbalanced games are a cornucopia of opportunities to mess around, to learn, to find new ways. To reject the norm and embrace the alternatives. We'll likely never be as powerful or competitive as the other camp, and in moments of lucidity we're okay with that. The flip side is when we're not okay with that, and everything seems so unfair and why should we have to be cookie cutters just to survive?! Well, we're the idiots self-gimping and denying the straight line to keep things interesting, aren't we? :)

Neither side is right, neither side is wrong. And you can get good input from both ends of the spectrum.

In the end, it's not about what we say as deliverers of feedback. It's about what GGG chooses to use.

That is the essence of this thread, I think, and I would like to add that it should in no way tell anyone that they should stop giving feedback. Whether it's to ask for a nerf or a buff, or to say, 'hey, things are great'...that's what this forum is for. Provided any post is made in the spirit of trying to improve the game, we welcome perspectives from all over the place.

*shrug* Just my two cents, give or take a grand.

For kicks, put me down for the crying masses team when it comes to loot. allocated ftw.

"

Crackmonster wrote:

"

Nagisawa wrote:

I want a game that challenges me, that is fun to beat, not because of the right gems and singular build, but because I have to do a little planning and strategy, not have the right gear.

The game will be as fun and challenging as you allow it to be.

Set yourself free.

Surely there are some facerollish builds out there, and surely the nabcakes are playing them all the time, but does this force you to play them also?

In this game i am sure there will be a near endless amount of completely viablo and different builds coming up even after many years, simply because there is so much more than cookie cutter here if you do want the challenge and don't seek the faceroll.

I'm not quite feeling you bro.

Unlike you, I'm not calling for GGG to listen or not listen to anyone. I think that GGG should take all feed back and decide, for themselves how to proceed. If they believe that the game is too hard, or if there's something wrong with some builds, or whatever, I will support their decision.

At the same time, if there's something I don't like (Right now, I don't care much for the Duelist animation set, I liked the alternating Heavy Strike swings, for example) I will mention it, in this part of the forum. But it is up to THEM to decide if my complaint is valid or not.

Just like they have to do it with every other poster's suggestion and take on this Beta forum.

"

EDIT: But you are also right, they shouldnt listen to me or others much. They should listen to themselves and the feedback that their intuition tells them is correct.

That's what I meant, I just wish you hadn't couched it in 'elitist' rhetoric.

"

With D3 i could literally make up superior systems to what that game had for itemization, here i just embarrass myself if i try to make better suggestions than what has already been come up with.

There is a lot wrong with Diablo 3. The inability to customize the stats, the Auction Houses, the fact that the 'story' is just another Diablo 2, right down to the zones you get to visit. The online only even if soloing component, that's really bad to me, locking out 40% of the U.S. alone with that move (because only 60% of Americans have a stable internet connection, the rest are in rural areas with spotty at best internet) But it did do a fair amount right.

Examples: The game engine used let's you FEEL powerful. Throwing the bodies of minions all over the place with a simple basic swing from say, the Barbarian or the Monk feels GOOD. The itemization as you said. And the characters are for the most part, enjoyable.


And Charan, you've got me all wrong. I don't want a straight line to victory, I want a challenge. Right now, there's only one way to play PoE, and that's a ranged format in some way. But once you do that, there is no challenge anymore.

My main is a Leap Slam/Sweep/Cleave Marauder, with 50% offence nodes, and as many health nodes as I can get (mostly Strength boosts, though) and I'm trying my damnedest to make it work. It's not easy, especially with Piety being as rough as she is. (Going to have to find more resists, now that I have Resolute Technique.) But I WILL make it work. Hopefully with the Melee changes coming up, it will be slightly more doable, but I will be severely bummed if they make it too easy.

Give me a challenge, but don't force me into the 'Build of The Month', that's just making it 'easy mode', because all you have to do is... Copy it.