please end mystery boxes (loot boxes, glorified gambling)

"

Xavathos wrote:

Still haven't heard anything but empty remarks and false quotations from you, Sickness.

Do you have no shame at all? Ad hominem does not make you any less wrong.

Premise 1: Buying tabs allow you to sell items faster.
Premise 2: Selling items faster is an advantage.
Premise 3: Paying for an advantage is P2W.
Conclusion: Buying tabs is (or allows for) P2W.

It's not an empty remark or a false quotation, it's simple logic. Accept it instead of doubling down on falsehoods.

"

Sickness wrote:

"

Xavathos wrote:

Still haven't heard anything but empty remarks and false quotations from you, Sickness.

Do you have no shame at all? Ad hominem does not make you any less wrong.

Premise 1: Buying tabs allow you to sell items faster.
Premise 2: Selling items faster is an advantage.
Premise 3: Paying for an advantage is P2W.
Conclusion: Buying tabs is (or allows for) P2W.

It's not an empty remark or a false quotation, it's simple logic. Accept it instead of doubling down on falsehoods.

Ad hominem, ha. I'm just stating facts, challenging you to come forward with some actual arguments, so you can be a part of the discussion, rather than a troll spamming nonsense. There's nothing wrong with what I'm doing and you're still dodging the answer, only serving to prove me right each time.

"

Xavathos wrote:

"

Sickness wrote:

"

Xavathos wrote:

Still haven't heard anything but empty remarks and false quotations from you, Sickness.

Do you have no shame at all? Ad hominem does not make you any less wrong.

Premise 1: Buying tabs allow you to sell items faster.
Premise 2: Selling items faster is an advantage.
Premise 3: Paying for an advantage is P2W.
Conclusion: Buying tabs is (or allows for) P2W.

It's not an empty remark or a false quotation, it's simple logic. Accept it instead of doubling down on falsehoods.

Ad hominem, ha. I'm just stating facts, challenging you to come forward with some actual arguments, so you can be a part of the discussion, rather than a troll spamming nonsense. There's nothing wrong with what I'm doing and you're still dodging the answer, only serving to prove me right each time.

Premises followed by a conclusion IS an argument. I could not possibly make the argument any more clearly and plainly than I just did.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument

Now, feel free to reject the validity* or disagree with the premises. As far as I know however we have agreed on all of them already, in one way or another.

I am happy to have honest discussion here. You quoting a post where I lay out an argument by it's very definition only to say that I am not making an argument is not honest.


*An argument is valid if the conclusion follows from the premises. If a premise is false that does not make the argument invalid, it just makes the conclusion unsupported. With that said, do you find my argument invalid or do you disagree with one or more premises?

"

UlfgardLeo wrote:

I haven't read all those pages and the last two are kind of off-topic.

Did we agree that loot-boxes are praying on peoples weaknesses and abuse psychological biases(dopamine rush/ sunken cost fallacy) which can push a vulnerable group into bankruptcy? Or did the side win that argued that everyone is responsible for themselves?

There is no win or lose here.

"

Sickness wrote:

Premises followed by a conclusion IS an argument. I could not possibly make the argument any more clearly and plainly than I just did.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument

Now, feel free to reject the validity* or disagree with the premises. As far as I know however we have agreed on all of them already, in one way or another.

I am happy to have honest discussion here. You quoting a post where I lay out an argument by it's very definition only to say that I am not making an argument is not honest.


*An argument is valid if the conclusion follows from the premises. If a premise is false that does not make the argument invalid, it just makes the conclusion unsupported. With that said, do you find my argument invalid or do you disagree with one or more premises?

The more I read into your posts, the more it looks like you're just trolling. All you do is dance around the edge of what people are saying, without addressing the actual subject. You remind me of someone I haven't seen in a while, actually...
But sure, ignorance is bliss, I'll bite again:

I didn't say you don't give an argument, but your argument has no substance, no reason, not even a cause. You give, in essence, a bad argument, backed up by nothing but "because I say so" which is fine for you, but unlikely to convince others. Since you've spent the last 10 pages trying so hard to get me to agree with you, saying you don't care is pointless.

So, are you going to finally provide evidence for your statements thus far, or can I safely ignore you from now on?

"

Sickness wrote:

"

Xavathos wrote:

Still haven't heard anything but empty remarks and false quotations from you, Sickness.

Do you have no shame at all? Ad hominem does not make you any less wrong.

Premise 1: Buying tabs allow you to sell items faster.
Premise 2: Selling items faster is an advantage.
Premise 3: Paying for an advantage is P2W.
Conclusion: Buying tabs is (or allows for) P2W.

It's not an empty remark or a false quotation, it's simple logic. Accept it instead of doubling down on falsehoods.

another news: the game isn't free to play because some people have commercial email addresses!

---

i make more currency selling one kaoms heart or a headhunter over a forum entry than you selling crap over 100 quad tabs.

in fact i'm even better off cause i play the game while you wait in the hideout to serve those buyers.

this is my last post here.

"

Xavathos wrote:

The more I read into your posts, the more it looks like you're just trolling. All you do is dance around the edge of what people are saying, without addressing the actual subject. You remind me of someone I haven't seen in a while, actually...
But sure, ignorance is bliss, I'll bite again:

I didn't say you don't give an argument, but your argument has no substance, no reason, not even a cause. You give, in essence, a bad argument, backed up by nothing but "because I say so" which is fine for you, but unlikely to convince others. Since you've spent the last 10 pages trying so hard to get me to agree with you, saying you don't care is pointless.

So, are you going to finally provide evidence for your statements thus far, or can I safely ignore you from now on?

It's backed up by 15 pages of discussion. Every premise have been discussed at length already and as far as I know we have agreed on all of them at some point. I asked you specifically what premise you had a problem with. I gave you my argument in it's most basic form, it could not be any easier for you to adress and point out exactly where the flaws are. Yet you keep making vague "all is nonsense, you are troll" ad hominem posts.

Premise 1: Buying tabs allow you to sell items faster.

Putting an item in a tab to have it appear on the trade sites is faster than any alternative. This premise is self evidently true and as far as I know we all seem to agree. The fact that it is possible to use tabs in a way that slow you down does not remove the possibility to use them in a way that speeds things up. So that entire line of argument is invalid.

Premise 2: Selling items faster is an advantage.

Selling items faster lets you attain currency faster, which lets to spend currency faster. That is an advantage by any stretch of the imagination, otherwise straight out buying currency from the shop would't be an advatange.

Premise 3: Paying for an advantage is P2W.

Most people agree with this definition word for word. Even the posters who initially disagree always comes back to this kind of definition when applied to their "win condition."

Conclusion: Buying tabs is (or allows for) P2W.

You are paying for the advantage of selling items faster. That is P2W.



I really can't make it any more clear than this. All you need to do is to disprove a single premise and my entire argument falls flat. If you wont do that and instead once again makes a post with nothing but ad hominem you are making it perfectly clear that you simply cant refute the argument.

"

vio wrote:

i make more currency selling one kaoms heart or a headhunter over a forum entry than you selling crap over 100 quad tabs.

in fact i'm even better off cause i play the game while you wait in the hideout to serve those buyers.

this is my last post here.

I make currency faster selling one kaoms heart with a stash tab than you selling it over a forum entry.

The options are not "buy tabs and waste time selling crap" vs "Don't buy tabs and only sell efficiently". That is a blatantly false dichotomy. The relevant comparison is "buy tabs and sell efficiently" vs "Don't buy tabs and sell efficiently". In that case buying the tabs does give you an advantage.

"

Sickness wrote:

It's backed up by 15 pages of discussion. Every premise have been discussed at length already and as far as I know we have agreed on all of them at some point. I asked you specifically what premise you had a problem with. I gave you my argument in it's most basic form, it could not be any easier for you to adress and point out exactly where the flaws are. Yet you keep making vague "all is nonsense, you are troll" ad hominem posts.

Okay first of all, I'm not attacking you. You clearly want to convince me that you're right, so I'm asking you to back up your claims, that's all. If I wanted to attack you, you'd know about it.

"

Sickness wrote:

Premise 1: Buying tabs allow you to sell items faster.

Putting an item in a tab to have it appear on the trade sites is faster than any alternative. This premise is self evidently true and as far as I know we all seem to agree. The fact that it is possible to use tabs in a way that slow you down does not remove the possibility to use them in a way that speeds things up. So that entire line of argument is invalid.

"Faster" is vague. How fast? How much difference does it make? Does it even make a difference? "A train is faster than a boat." is essentially what you're saying, which isn't necessarily true at all. I can put an item up for sale on forums as fast as I can do it in-game. All it takes is a quick alt-tab and a copy/paste combo and it's up for sale, even showing on said websites.

Like I said, you can do everything a paying player can as a free player. No content, power or services are behind a paywall, there is no P2W here. The fact that you may be a forum slowpoke, doesn't make your argument a fact.

"

Sickness wrote:

Premise 2: Selling items faster is an advantage.

Selling items faster lets you attain currency faster, which lets to spend currency faster. That is an advantage by any stretch of the imagination, otherwise straight out buying currency from the shop would't be an advatange.

There's one giant flaw in this logic. Where do you get the items from and how does having more stash tabs affect this? In order to sell anything at all, you'd have to obtain it first and stash tabs have absolutely nothing to do with that as far as I can see.

To compare this to RMT is... I don't even... That's like saying renting storage space is illegal, because it could be used to store contraband. RMT is against the rules, stash tabs have nothing to do with that.

"

Sickness wrote:

Premise 3: Paying for an advantage is P2W.

Most people agree with this definition word for word. Even the posters who initially disagree always comes back to this kind of definition when applied to their "win condition."

Conclusion: Buying tabs is (or allows for) P2W.

You are paying for the advantage of selling items faster. That is P2W.

Yes, and I totally agree that paying for an advantage is P2W, as stated above. The advantage here, however, exists only in your head. In your opinion this is a fact. If this is all you've got to say, then your argument has no validation to me.

"

Sickness wrote:

I really can't make it any more clear than this. All you need to do is to disprove a single premise and my entire argument falls flat. If you wont do that and instead once again makes a post with nothing but ad hominem you are making it perfectly clear that you simply cant refute the argument.

Again, I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking your argument. That's not ad hominem, I suggest you look up the definition if you think otherwise. I have no problems with you at all and finally you've answered what I've been asking for all this time. Even though you couldn't convince me this time, thank you for at least being part of the discussion. No hard feelings here.


Bottom line

You are absolutely free to believe stash tabs are P2W, but if you publicly state it to be a fact, you better be ready to back up those claims with solid arguments or be prepared for it to be challenged on every corner.

"

Sickness wrote:

"

vio wrote:

i make more currency selling one kaoms heart or a headhunter over a forum entry than you selling crap over 100 quad tabs.

in fact i'm even better off cause i play the game while you wait in the hideout to serve those buyers.

this is my last post here.

I make currency faster selling one kaoms heart with a stash tab than you selling it over a forum entry.

The options are not "buy tabs and waste time selling crap" vs "Don't buy tabs and only sell efficiently". That is a blatantly false dichotomy. The relevant comparison is "buy tabs and sell efficiently" vs "Don't buy tabs and sell efficiently". In that case buying the tabs does give you an advantage.

You're not wrong. And your arguments have been (almost) flawless. Well done.

You're also way off-topic. Why haven't you guys moved this to another thread? Or PM, if your fight is personal?

You honestly think you aren't being extraordinarily rude to achillesdub as well as everyone else who tried to engage in discussion with him/her?

Most of them have given up now. How the hell do you expect people to talk about Topic A while two or three people fight with each other about Topic B?

THIS is why multiple pages of off-topic arguments (often between only 2 or 3 people, which is even worse) are not good for the forum.

It is not only rude; it is disruptive, and against the Code of Conduct that you implicitly agreed to when you made your first post in this forum. You have more or less killed the actual discussion that was taking place in this thread (and which even tried to resurface but was then immediately knocked back into oblivion by derailing posters).

You seemed annoyed when you accused me of spamming for asking people to stop making off-topic posts when it would have taken you literally two minutes (i.e., the same exact amount of time) to make another thread and create a link directing the argument there. Do you think multiple pages of off-topic posts are any less annoying?

You represent yourself as someone familiar with logic and argumentation, so consider it from that perspective, please.

"

achillesdub wrote:

"

AceNightfire wrote:

"

ajo wrote:

If we focus on kill and loot, having a larger stash is still beneficial because it allows you to use the vendor recepies to the fullest.

And guess what? Picking up rare items and stashing them in your storage and picking them up later to vendor them consumes alot of time. I mean, really alot. Someone who doesnt care for these recipes doesnt need to pick those items up, his lootfilter is more specific and therefore that guy will have more play time, will clear maps faster and will progress faster into high tier maps. And there is the big loot.

There is a GOOD reason why pro gamers are rich, even before they could sell ANYTHING, since the casual players dont have any currency to buy anything at all. Pro players dont get rich thanks to storage tabs, they get rich thanks to fast clear speed and a very fast progress in the game.

stay on topic or leave

Did you miss this?

This is an explicit request from the OP to stop derailing the thread, which you (and a couple others) continue to ignore.