please end mystery boxes (loot boxes, glorified gambling)

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Sickness wrote:

Please give examples of things that would be p2w.

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AceNightfire wrote:

Oh, that's easy. P2W would be like:

- "Your orbs have a better chance at rolling high stats"
- "You get 200% EXP for 3 hours a day"
- "Your MTX pets attack enemies, take aggro and/or buff you"
- "Your MTX pets automatically loot high value drops"
- "You can transfer your SC character into HC"

Things like those could be considered Winning by Paying, since the highest goal in PoE is probably clearing the hardest content and preferebly as the first player (to get the global messages who reached Level X first or cleared map Y first). And those things above increase your progress by an incredible amount.

Stashtabs dont increase your speed. It's more the opposite: You heavily get slowed down by them. I hord things I dont need and spent alot of time playing tetris in my stashtabs. I have like 100 uniques in my storage, 95% of them I will never use and have no worth at all and 5 stashtabs are used for selling stuff, but most of the stuff stays there like forever. I also spent alot of time on stashtabs for my Chaos Recipe. I have one stash tab for each piece of equipment needed for C Recipe.

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AceNightfire wrote:

Am I winning? No, I have like 2 Exalteds in my inventory (which I found) and probably items worth another 2 Exalteds. The highest stuff Im clearing with my Templar right now are Tier6-8 maps. Never killed Atziri oder Elder before. Im clearly not winning, not even in ONE aspect. Im not the fastest, not the strongest or the richest player and yet I have 30 premium stash tabs. I keep hording stuff and I think it's fun, but I dont see the big advantage Im getting here over other players.

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Sickness wrote:

You wouldn't be "winning" with any of the stuff you just called P2W either, so make up your mind already. You can't have it both ways, you are not presenting an honest argument.

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Xavathos wrote:

Well said though, Ace, I agree. There is no advantage to having more than the basic stash tabs.

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Xavathos wrote:

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Sickness wrote:

You wouldn't be "winning" with any of the stuff you just called P2W either, so make up your mind already. You can't have it both ways, you are not presenting an honest argument.

You are not presenting any argument, if we're going to keep score now.

Feel free to provide one. I know you won't, I'm just naive like that.

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Sickness wrote:

Incorrect. Stash tabs do not inherently slow you down. You can choose to be slowed down by them if you want, but that is completely irrelevant when the fact is that you can use them in a way that does not slow you down and instead increases your speed.

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Sickness wrote:

You wouldn't be "winning" with any of the stuff you just called P2W either, so make up your mind already. You can't have it both ways, you are not presenting an honest argument.

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Sickness wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

Well said though, Ace, I agree. There is no advantage to having more than the basic stash tabs.

Ofcourse there is an advantage. You can earn currency faster. That's like saying that there is no advantage in being able to buy currency from the shop. You even agreed with me on this a few pages back. Why the change of heart?

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AceNightfire wrote:

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Sickness wrote:

Incorrect. Stash tabs do not inherently slow you down. You can choose to be slowed down by them if you want, but that is completely irrelevant when the fact is that you can use them in a way that does not slow you down and instead increases your speed.

Pro-Players: Have very strict drop filters, only gets currency shown worth at least an alchemy orb and only gets shown a VERY few unique items. No rares and maybe items that are craft-worthy. They dont pick up stuff they would potentially horde anyway and therefore their stash tabs are mostly unused during the first 90 levels. Only to stash some currency and some worthy uniques here and there. He also doesnt care about stelling stuff to other players, because it's time consuming. Therefore he doesnt need to fiddle around with dozens of stashtabs. So a pro player could easily handle the game without any additional stashtabs.

Casual Players: Players like me. I have the normal loot filter probably 95% of the poe community uses and pick up stuff I certainly dont need. I take 99% of the uniques and hord them, I take rares from time to time for C Recipe and spent alot of time organizing those items in my stash. It's inefficient, but I have fun with it. Since I'm not a pro player who clears High Tier maps all the time, I usually dont get as much good currency. So selling stuff and C Recipe helps me to get a decent amount of currency so I can afford boots with 30% movement speed, tri-res and a good life roll.

Now tell me, who is faster? Who "wins" more? Am I (the casual player) winning now thanks to my stash tabs? I guess not.

Now my question to you: In what way can you utilize stashtabs so that you are "faster" then someone without stash tabs?

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Sickness wrote:

You wouldn't be "winning" with any of the stuff you just called P2W either, so make up your mind already. You can't have it both ways, you are not presenting an honest argument.

Ofc I would. Lets make another comparison with 2 pro players who aim to be the first level 100 character and clearing the most difficult maps:

Pro-Player 1: Hasnt purchased any MTX P2W stuff. He clears his maps like before, probably skipping 30% of the monsters and is like always 1-2 levels behind the current map level, therefore having a greater risk at dying. He needs to pick up good items by hand, wasting even more time. When playing SSF, using alchemy orb will probably result in bad equipment 90% of the time. Has to bring down his enemies by himself

Pro-Player 2: Purchased everything that is P2W. Thanks to his experience boost, he can probably skip now 60% of the monsters on the map and still gets as much experience as pro-player 1. Thanks to his pets, he doesnt need too pick up any valuables at all, letting him rush through the content easily. His pets also help him clear stuff and tank mobs for him, leaving him with less danger.

Who do you think will reach lvl 100 first? Who will have it easier clearing high tier content?

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Xavathos wrote:

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Sickness wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

Well said though, Ace, I agree. There is no advantage to having more than the basic stash tabs.

Ofcourse there is an advantage. You can earn currency faster. That's like saying that there is no advantage in being able to buy currency from the shop. You even agreed with me on this a few pages back. Why the change of heart?

I never agreed with you in this thread and I never will.

In order to agree with someone, they'd have to have a clear standpoint, which you don't.

You talk a lot, but you say very little.
"You can earn currency faster."
That is such a vague argument that leaves everything to be interpreted by the reader, the classic example of a bad argument.

Tell us how stash tabs earn you currency faster.

It's not really meant as a tool for discussions and debate, but it kind of applies here: Make your argument SMART.

If you're not familiar with the term, it stands for Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Realistic, Time-bound.

Give us something tangible other than thin air and an opinion. If you don't, I'll disagree, guaranteed. You can't complain about that really, this is what you ask for.