Worst Death Penalty mechanics I've ever seen!

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Buster1013 wrote:

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beaniac wrote:

Because there is no possible way to avoid dying in this game? Playing better won't keep you alive? Putting in more effort to farm better gear before taking on greater challenges never helps?

Did you read this thread? It is not about "death penalty is bad", it is about "death penalty currently is bad, because you often don't know why you have died". I died during my first Elder fight - it is OK, because I know why. I have done over 150 T7-9 maps without any problems, but died 4 times in less than second (after going back to finish map, my life never dropped below 80%).

This was in direct response to what was quoted immediately above it, not to the thread as a whole. Specifically Vresiberba saying "the entire "git gud" advice is shit" because you can't avoid deaths.

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Buster1013 wrote:

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beaniac wrote:

Remember this is a game by serious gamers for serious gamers, and it's meant to be punishing. Providing that high skill/knowledge ceiling is central to the design of the game. There are a ton of other games out there for people who want to be spoon fed victory.

PoE is not an eSport, so what do you mean by "serious gamers"? Difficult and punishing are two different things. Diablo 2 is difficult, PoE is punishing.
Do you know that Trescent bought GGG? It means that PoE must generate big income. Do you know what is the best source of income? Casual players with job, family and limited time. They want fun, not punishing. PoE should be more difficult, but less punishing.

This is exactly the attitude that the original target player base was trying to escape. You are not entirely wrong here, this is the model most mainstream games out there have. 6 years ago GGG was a small indie game studio who wanted to service the player base that was looking for an escape from the dumbing down of the best games out there in order to appeal to a wider audience. PoE was one of the few bastions of truly challenging game play out there which held to the promise that they would not dumb down their content in order to appeal to a wider market.

You can see this in the monetization model that PoE uses. It is designed to target a small number of extremely passionate players and turn them into a recurring stream of income. This is in contrast to trying to get a small amount of money from a large number of players by just having them purchase the game.

GGG really has moved more toward the mainstream lately and maybe you will get your wish, but if you do GGG will essentially be abandoning the players that made them successful in the first place.

Once upon a time, there was a mmo shooter called Firefall. It has small but very dedicated player base. It was the best mmo I have ever played until Chinese investor bought studio. Great open world mmo has been changed it into primitive WoW clone shooter. After that it lost players and died.
I hope PoE will not go that way, but it has to generate good income. PoE should be much harder and less punishing/frustrating. Many people still want to play Diablo2-like game, but 95% of PoE content is one-shot racing RPG through 10 acts and first 10 map tiers, not hack'n'slash.

Having read the OP quite carefully, I completely agree.

I have no problem with the death penalty either. Sometimes it drives me bonkers, but it does keep me playing.


What DOES drive me crazy is those odd deaths that seem to come out of the blue, and against the run of normal gameplay.

That's where I would personally like to see some form of basic combat logging. Something that would indicate the cause of death.

I'd like the opportunity to understand WHY I died, and correct my gameplay/juggle gear/tree to compensate so that I can learn from it and avoid it in the future. I get totally pissed off when I die seemingly inexplicably to a bunch of seemingly normal mobs and have no clue as to why when I usually zap them with no problems. THAT's annoying!!!

Death penalty is harsh..but there's a workaround

- Staying attentive the type of maps you play
- Knowing mobs you're up against vs strength/weakness of a character
- AVOID RIPPY MAPS
- Play relatively safe maps (yes kinda sucks tho, but a necessary evil)


But there are bullshit death's that are unavoidable due to lag (often for me), crashes (rare, but f'ing annoying) & dumb ass broken mechanics that hasn't been flushed out.

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Kasapnica wrote:

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Romulas19 wrote:

Never myself have I been a fan of it, I can understand it being in a league but id like them to take it out of standard. But from what I hear on certain servers u can purchase points to negate the 10 percent loss. Id certainly buy more points if that were the case here on this server.

And this is why this game is dead the moment Tencent gets the full rights.

No way

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beaniac wrote:

You are entirely the kid...

Just stop responding to my posts, I'm not reading them anymore.

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

Original HC (Diablo 1/2) - 1 Death, everything's gone, no transfer to SC, and you're needing to dual box on a separate account or grab a friend to loot your corpse.

There were no hardcore mode in Diablo 1, in fact, Diablo 1 used save files which you could reload after death = no penalty, whatsoever. None.

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

The power value for those last few levels won't increase any build by magical leaps and bounds. It's really just another time sink of the usual carrot on the stick.

A time sink? In a temporary league? That makes no sense at all.

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

Goals keep players playing.

Exactly! So when you realise you can't reach level 100, that your goal is unattainable, you quit. Players quitting is bad for this game, its success is entirely based on player not quitting.

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

40 challenges is much of the same - the vast majority of the player base will never come close to it, but it serves to motivate players to keep going when they normally would not.

Again, when players realise they're not going to get to level 100 or reach 40 challenges, that carrot turns into a neener-neener. People aren't stupid.

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

100 in SC is hardly prestigious

Says the guy;

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

I can't help but feel a bit entertained by this thread, particularly the responses full of self-entitlement.

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Powbleeder wrote:

If you die, you just need to bring your character down a map tier/reroll certain map mods and keep farming until you hit the next level.

I play SSF and have a grand total of 14 Scouring orbs and I'm out of Chaos. Re-rolling maps isn't an option, it's either play the map, the only one I got or throw it away, and I kind of need, not only play it, but beat the boss, too, otherwise I'm not progressing in that respect, either. This entire game is designed to make players take a chance and hope for the best and while that in itself isn't a problem, penalising the players for doing what the developers designed the game to be played on the other hand, is.

And I like to remind you, again, that there's a specific mode for this kind of thing; hardcore (which isn't hardcore enough mind you, but I digress).

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Powbleeder wrote:

If you can't level up more, it just means your character is not ready for that level of content consistently yet.

Nope. It means that the penalty is too harsh. The game isn't suitable for that kind of penalty, it's too unreliable both in design and functionality.

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Powbleeder wrote:

And yet there are still high level ssf players every league with insane gear comparable to trade league.

"Yet Bolt can easily do sub 10 seconds!!1". I'm not interested in what others do.

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Powbleeder wrote:

Idk I don't encounter these sudden, out of the blue deaths outside of being ridiculously underleveled with uncapped res and leveling gear.

Don't believe you.

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Powbleeder wrote:

The penalty as it stands now at 10% really isn't really that much.

I disagree, and you're being awfully inconsistent with the importance of the penalty; in one sentence you say it's trivial and in an another it makes the levels mean more.

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Powbleeder wrote:

If filters out undergeared characters and makes higher levels mean more without making it feel completely over the top difficult and bullshit.

What do you mean "filter out"? Out of what? Contention? And what do you mean by "mean more"? Mean more for whom? Not being able to reach level 100 means shit to me, it may mean something to you that I'm unable to get there, but it sure as hell doesn't to me.

Reaching 100 is a personal goal and has precisely nothing to do with what other players do. And this is part of the problem, because despite what people insists in this thread and every other like it; it IS about elitism, it's there every time this is discussed. This game caters for the pro-player's, the Twitch stars and the "I'm better that youse's" and it doesn't have to.



Edit: And right now... I died, again, doing a Haku daily, setting me back an hour. Something happened, a glitch, desync, I don't know, but suddenly the game came to a crawl and I couldn't move. This happens WAY too often and I should applaud this ridiculous penalty, costing me time, effort and piece of mind through no fault of my own? Yeah, I don't think so.

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Romulas19 wrote:

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Kasapnica wrote:

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Romulas19 wrote:

Never myself have I been a fan of it, I can understand it being in a league but id like them to take it out of standard. But from what I hear on certain servers u can purchase points to negate the 10 percent loss. Id certainly buy more points if that were the case here on this server.

And this is why this game is dead the moment Tencent gets the full rights.

No way

I mean,you literally said you would pay for advantage :/

However small it seems,it's always the first step.

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Buster1013 wrote:

PoE should be much harder and less punishing/frustrating.

And that is the best summary of why these threads go nowhere. I can't think of anything I've ever played that was hard and not frustrating at one point or another.


@Vres or whatever - no matter how you respond, the bottom line is you still do and still log in. I was burnt out before league even started, and yet I'll still make at least 24 challenges despite thinking I'd be content to stop at 12.

There are psychological aspects to the game design that keep particular types of gamers going.