VP+Reflect

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sidtherat wrote:

And you really do not need this damage foe clear. If i can 2 shot rares in t15 maps with a f.. glacial hammer on a 5 link then you need 3 link at most with your setup


If this is the case and glass cannon builds has no advantage in map clearing, why does this game has to have reflect again?
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LaiTash wrote:
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sidtherat wrote:

And you really do not need this damage foe clear. If i can 2 shot rares in t15 maps with a f.. glacial hammer on a 5 link then you need 3 link at most with your setup


If this is the case and glass cannon builds has no advantage in map clearing, why does this game has to have reflect again?


Because everyone and their dog's cousin's tennis partner would be playing glass cannon builds and all defensive options would become obsolete. Let's not make our game as shallow as a puddle of mud, please.

Glass cannon doesn't deserve an advantage over other builds. Everything has its drawback. Reflect is the one these builds deal with. Simple, right?

You play an ARPG where yes, you are constantly making your character more powerful. But what you classify as power is damage. Only damage. Clear speed. Gotta go fast.

My character is more powerful when it has defenses capable of sustaining the increase in damage without risk of death. THAT'S power.

You can fit a jet engine in a car, make it go super fast, but you'd be like a bucket of KFC extra crispy before the second mile is traversed.

Balance and control.
Carry on my waypoint son, there'll be peace when maps are done.
Lay your portal gem to rest, don't you die no more.

'Cause it's a bitter sweet symphony this league.
Try to make maps meet, you're a slave to the meta, then you leave.
Last edited by Xavathos on Nov 20, 2017, 6:42:48 AM
Reflect is terrible in it's current state and needs to either go or be gimped to more reasonable levels.
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Xavathos wrote:
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LaiTash wrote:
"
sidtherat wrote:

And you really do not need this damage foe clear. If i can 2 shot rares in t15 maps with a f.. glacial hammer on a 5 link then you need 3 link at most with your setup


If this is the case and glass cannon builds has no advantage in map clearing, why does this game has to have reflect again?


Because everyone and their dog's cousin's tennis partner would be playing glass cannon builds and all defensive options would become obsolete. Let's not make our game as shallow as a puddle of mud, please.

Glass cannon doesn't deserve an advantage over other builds. Everything has its drawback. Reflect is the one these builds deal with. Simple, right?


Even with VP not everyone is playing glass cannon builds. You'll actually probably don't find any in HC, because guess what? They DIE. A LOT. And that's with Vaal Pact.

They have a drawback already. They are low on life and low on defences. Now with Vaal Pact gone, this should mean something. Leaving reflect as it is is a death sentence to those builds now.
Last edited by LaiTash on Nov 20, 2017, 6:44:45 AM
"
LaiTash wrote:
They have a drawback already. They are low on life and low on defences. Now with Vaal Pact gone, this should mean something. Leaving reflect as it is is a death sentence to those builds now.


Yup. RIP in pepperonis broken facetank builds. Good riddance. Time to start using our brains again.
Carry on my waypoint son, there'll be peace when maps are done.
Lay your portal gem to rest, don't you die no more.

'Cause it's a bitter sweet symphony this league.
Try to make maps meet, you're a slave to the meta, then you leave.
"
Xavathos wrote:
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LaiTash wrote:
They have a drawback already. They are low on life and low on defences. Now with Vaal Pact gone, this should mean something. Leaving reflect as it is is a death sentence to those builds now.


Yup. RIP in pepperonis broken facetank builds. Good riddance. Time to start using our brains again.


What are you talking about? With PoB i can make a solid tanky build with like 150-200k dps while being drunk and using no brain except for cerebellum to move a mouse. Take gladiator, AA here, fortify there, enduring cry, grace, maybe iron reflexes, CWDT+IC+enfeeble, a few flasks and a nearly immortal build with like 40k armor or 15k armor + 20k evasion buffed that is also immune to shit like detonate dead or porcupines is ready.

What i actually find difficult is reaching 2-3kk DPS.

And once again, glass cannons will no longer be able to facetank anything without VP.
Last edited by LaiTash on Nov 20, 2017, 6:56:32 AM
If only monsters actually had time to attack you. But they dont.

And.. you can mitigate reflect already. On any build. It requires a thing called moderation. 'I want it all' mentality backfires horribly in games, even more so in real life

Reali0ty check. Have people done attack builds in HC without VP? If the answer is yes (and we all know it is) then sorry but all these demands are just asking for 'i win care free' gameplay.

Right now lack of VP will finaly bring risk vs reward. You want full screen uber clear speed? Sure. Just know the risks.

You can go full tank and farm 10 times slower. Or you can smart up and find a happy middle. Good players are there already and soon others will join them

Or ggg caves in and removes the reflect so we all can start farming shapeless xp globes. Or play somethin else.


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LaiTash wrote:
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Xavathos wrote:
"
LaiTash wrote:
They have a drawback already. They are low on life and low on defences. Now with Vaal Pact gone, this should mean something. Leaving reflect as it is is a death sentence to those builds now.


Yup. RIP in pepperonis broken facetank builds. Good riddance. Time to start using our brains again.


What are you talking about? With PoB i can make a solid tanky build with like 150-200k dps while being drunk and using no brain except for cerebellum to move a mouse. Take gladiator, AA here, fortify there, enduring cry, grace, maybe iron reflexes, CWDT+IC+enfeeble, a few flasks and a nearly immortal build with like 40k armor or 15k armor + 20k evasion buffed that is also immune to shit like detonate dead or porcupines is ready.

What i actually find difficult is reaching 2-3kk DPS.

And once again, glass cannons will no longer be able to facetank anything without VP.


Which is something you are not meant to be able to do!!
Carry on my waypoint son, there'll be peace when maps are done.
Lay your portal gem to rest, don't you die no more.

'Cause it's a bitter sweet symphony this league.
Try to make maps meet, you're a slave to the meta, then you leave.
"
sidtherat wrote:
If only monsters actually had time to attack you. But they dont.


And that is exactly what i expect from a glass cannon build. Being able to kill things fast is their ONLY defence. This shouldn't be taken away from them. And they DO die to porcupines, detonate dead, opening a chest and failing to react fast enough, offscreen attacks, lagspikes etc - all the stuff i don't care about if i have like 7.5+ hp and some layers of defence.

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Reali0ty check. Have people done attack builds in HC without VP? If the answer is yes (and we all know it is) then sorry but all these demands are just asking for 'i win care free' gameplay.


They do, because HC builds rarely do insane damage, and they never go glass cannon. BECAUSE A GLASS CANNON WILL NEVER GET TO LVL 90 ON HARDCORE EVEN WITH VP. How is that not limiting enough?

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Right now lack of VP will finaly bring risk vs reward. You want full screen uber clear speed? Sure. Just know the risks.


And the risks are - 100% death with no hope to react fast enough to avoid death unless you're teenager with formula-1 viable reaction time? This is a bad design. You should always have a chance to survive in any situation. That is why flame bearers don't explode immediately, that is why we have slow-moving volatiles with sound alert, that is why most hard-hitting boss attacks are telegraphed, that is why flameblasts are expanding slow enough for you to be able to move out of harm's way even if you're paralitic, but reflect? No, it will kill you in a fraction of a second if you're glass cannon doing ~500k-1kk DPS.
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Xavathos wrote:
Which is something you are not meant to be able to do!!


Which is something they are no longer able to do. Problem solved. No reflect needed.

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