VP+Reflect

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sidtherat wrote:

And you really do not need this damage foe clear. If i can 2 shot rares in t15 maps with a f.. glacial hammer on a 5 link then you need 3 link at most with your setup

If this is the case and glass cannon builds has no advantage in map clearing, why does this game has to have reflect again?

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LaiTash wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

And you really do not need this damage foe clear. If i can 2 shot rares in t15 maps with a f.. glacial hammer on a 5 link then you need 3 link at most with your setup

If this is the case and glass cannon builds has no advantage in map clearing, why does this game has to have reflect again?

Because everyone and their dog's cousin's tennis partner would be playing glass cannon builds and all defensive options would become obsolete. Let's not make our game as shallow as a puddle of mud, please.

Glass cannon doesn't deserve an advantage over other builds. Everything has its drawback. Reflect is the one these builds deal with. Simple, right?

You play an ARPG where yes, you are constantly making your character more powerful. But what you classify as power is damage. Only damage. Clear speed. Gotta go fast.

My character is more powerful when it has defenses capable of sustaining the increase in damage without risk of death. THAT'S power.

You can fit a jet engine in a car, make it go super fast, but you'd be like a bucket of KFC extra crispy before the second mile is traversed.

Balance and control.

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Xavathos wrote:

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LaiTash wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

And you really do not need this damage foe clear. If i can 2 shot rares in t15 maps with a f.. glacial hammer on a 5 link then you need 3 link at most with your setup

If this is the case and glass cannon builds has no advantage in map clearing, why does this game has to have reflect again?

Because everyone and their dog's cousin's tennis partner would be playing glass cannon builds and all defensive options would become obsolete. Let's not make our game as shallow as a puddle of mud, please.

Glass cannon doesn't deserve an advantage over other builds. Everything has its drawback. Reflect is the one these builds deal with. Simple, right?

Even with VP not everyone is playing glass cannon builds. You'll actually probably don't find any in HC, because guess what? They DIE. A LOT. And that's with Vaal Pact.

They have a drawback already. They are low on life and low on defences. Now with Vaal Pact gone, this should mean something. Leaving reflect as it is is a death sentence to those builds now.

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LaiTash wrote:

They have a drawback already. They are low on life and low on defences. Now with Vaal Pact gone, this should mean something. Leaving reflect as it is is a death sentence to those builds now.

Yup. RIP in pepperonis broken facetank builds. Good riddance. Time to start using our brains again.

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Xavathos wrote:

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LaiTash wrote:

They have a drawback already. They are low on life and low on defences. Now with Vaal Pact gone, this should mean something. Leaving reflect as it is is a death sentence to those builds now.

Yup. RIP in pepperonis broken facetank builds. Good riddance. Time to start using our brains again.

What are you talking about? With PoB i can make a solid tanky build with like 150-200k dps while being drunk and using no brain except for cerebellum to move a mouse. Take gladiator, AA here, fortify there, enduring cry, grace, maybe iron reflexes, CWDT+IC+enfeeble, a few flasks and a nearly immortal build with like 40k armor or 15k armor + 20k evasion buffed that is also immune to shit like detonate dead or porcupines is ready.

What i actually find difficult is reaching 2-3kk DPS.

And once again, glass cannons will no longer be able to facetank anything without VP.

If only monsters actually had time to attack you. But they dont.

And.. you can mitigate reflect already. On any build. It requires a thing called moderation. 'I want it all' mentality backfires horribly in games, even more so in real life

Reali0ty check. Have people done attack builds in HC without VP? If the answer is yes (and we all know it is) then sorry but all these demands are just asking for 'i win care free' gameplay.

Right now lack of VP will finaly bring risk vs reward. You want full screen uber clear speed? Sure. Just know the risks.

You can go full tank and farm 10 times slower. Or you can smart up and find a happy middle. Good players are there already and soon others will join them

Or ggg caves in and removes the reflect so we all can start farming shapeless xp globes. Or play somethin else.

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LaiTash wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

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LaiTash wrote:

They have a drawback already. They are low on life and low on defences. Now with Vaal Pact gone, this should mean something. Leaving reflect as it is is a death sentence to those builds now.

Yup. RIP in pepperonis broken facetank builds. Good riddance. Time to start using our brains again.

What are you talking about? With PoB i can make a solid tanky build with like 150-200k dps while being drunk and using no brain except for cerebellum to move a mouse. Take gladiator, AA here, fortify there, enduring cry, grace, maybe iron reflexes, CWDT+IC+enfeeble, a few flasks and a nearly immortal build with like 40k armor or 15k armor + 20k evasion buffed that is also immune to shit like detonate dead or porcupines is ready.

What i actually find difficult is reaching 2-3kk DPS.

And once again, glass cannons will no longer be able to facetank anything without VP.

Which is something you are not meant to be able to do!!

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sidtherat wrote:

If only monsters actually had time to attack you. But they dont.

And that is exactly what i expect from a glass cannon build. Being able to kill things fast is their ONLY defence. This shouldn't be taken away from them. And they DO die to porcupines, detonate dead, opening a chest and failing to react fast enough, offscreen attacks, lagspikes etc - all the stuff i don't care about if i have like 7.5+ hp and some layers of defence.

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Reali0ty check. Have people done attack builds in HC without VP? If the answer is yes (and we all know it is) then sorry but all these demands are just asking for 'i win care free' gameplay.

They do, because HC builds rarely do insane damage, and they never go glass cannon. BECAUSE A GLASS CANNON WILL NEVER GET TO LVL 90 ON HARDCORE EVEN WITH VP. How is that not limiting enough?

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Right now lack of VP will finaly bring risk vs reward. You want full screen uber clear speed? Sure. Just know the risks.

And the risks are - 100% death with no hope to react fast enough to avoid death unless you're teenager with formula-1 viable reaction time? This is a bad design. You should always have a chance to survive in any situation. That is why flame bearers don't explode immediately, that is why we have slow-moving volatiles with sound alert, that is why most hard-hitting boss attacks are telegraphed, that is why flameblasts are expanding slow enough for you to be able to move out of harm's way even if you're paralitic, but reflect? No, it will kill you in a fraction of a second if you're glass cannon doing ~500k-1kk DPS.

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Xavathos wrote:

Which is something you are not meant to be able to do!!

Which is something they are no longer able to do. Problem solved. No reflect needed.

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SlippyCheeze wrote:

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Demonoz wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

only builds that take their DPS to unreasonable levels can one-shot themselves vs reflect

cut down the DPS, use low-dmg setup for ofscreening, build any kind of defences vs your own damage (it is obvious, isnt it - you know what kills you yet you do what exactly?)

reflect is a speed bump this game needs. otherwise all we will see are stupid glass cannon meta uber speed meta clear (with Biscos) making economy saturated in 1 week after league starts

power creep 'we enjoy' ruins this game and reflect is one of the last obstacles before it all turns into clown fiesta clicker game

Wow what shitty solution... Like really who on earth plays ARPGs to purposely gimp their characters? No one!

Well, apparently you do? By focusing only on damage output, and not at all on defense, you put yourself in a position where one map mod, reflect, will wipe you out repeatedly. If that isn't "gimping your character", I don't know what is. It'd be the same as running with an "elemental defenses are zero" unique, and then complaining that elemental damage should be removed from the game.

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Demonoz wrote:

No one plays games like this to make their characters weak.. The entire point of games like this it to progress your character to as powerful as possible..

Seems like your definition of "weak" could use some reconsideration, in view of the existence of reflect? I mean, do you consider all those affixes spent on resists to be forcing you to make a "weak" character as well?

If not, what is the difference between elemental resist and reflect resist?

Sounds like you need to either reread what i wrote or look into some reading comprehension...
I make builds to take as far as possible. To the endgame. Where it doesn't matter how much damage you have if you dont have the defenses to back it up and survive a single hit while likewise it no matter how tanky you are if you dont have the damage to get the job done your just as useless.. Gimping your builds in either respect in order to deal with outdated mechanics because your already limited options to deal with are made fewer while damage potential and mob life keeps going up.. Is Stupid and something has to change at some point.

Another person who has never been to endgame yet wants to voice what people should be doing with their builds.. Just stop.. Go actually play the game and just stop. Or stay in your little safe T10-11 maps grinding your guts out for lvls that mean nothing past 90 and probably still dont have a lvl 100.. Of course none of this matters to you guys and you'll never see the issue when you dont even map past where it really becomes a problem. Where no matter how much life or defenses you have if you have adequate damage for T15+ content your fucked on reflect its just that simple.. But as long as most of the player base ignores that content because its the least efficient way to lvl of course most people cant see the forest for the trees..

Lets be clear here i dont actually want to reflect outright removed but its mechanic changed to something where it still does its job in being a mechanic people need to look for and play around while also at the same time being completely meaningless through half the game but once in maps the higher you go the more your screwed by it. Which also correlates with damage requirements for that content.. again when your running yellow maps and T11 tops of course it can still be dealt with by doing stupid shit like gimping your damage or giving up tons of damage for more defenses for the sake of a single mechanic.. But then your also basically restricting yourself to that sleeper mode content because your definitely not gonna deal with all the other mechanics in T15 on top of reflect when you make your build shitty just to deal with that one single problem mechanic..