VP+Reflect

Oneshotted to reflect without 'unreasonable level' damage? Ha, i call bullshit. Even on a 4k life 75 res build without Yugul or any other damage taken mods would would need to deal 80000 damage in one hit to oneshot on a reflect mob. That's entirely unreasonable levels, especially for clearing skills. Yugul would push that to 106k.


If you're that desperate to cling to your unreasonable damage, there's a ring for lowering reflect damage. Or fortify. Or passive nodes. Or you could, you know, just focus a little more on defense and less on damage. Compromise.
Last edited by Shppy on Nov 18, 2017, 7:59:55 PM
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Shppy wrote:
Oneshotted to reflect without 'unreasonable level' damage? Ha, i call bullshit. Even on a 4k life 75 res build without Yugul or any other damage taken mods would would need to deal 80000 damage in one hit to oneshot on a reflect mob. That's entirely unreasonable levels, especially for clearing skills. Yugul would push that to 106k.


If you're that desperate to cling to your unreasonable damage, there's a ring for lowering reflect damage. Or fortify. Or passive nodes. Or you could, you know, just focus a little more on defense and less on damage. Compromise.

thats pretty easy to hit on any skill that hits twice eg ice shot, shrapnel shot ice spear.
after yugul you would need the ring i guess thats okish (i dont like that as design but whatever.)
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Fhark wrote:
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Shppy wrote:
Oneshotted to reflect without 'unreasonable level' damage? Ha, i call bullshit. Even on a 4k life 75 res build without Yugul or any other damage taken mods would would need to deal 80000 damage in one hit to oneshot on a reflect mob. That's entirely unreasonable levels, especially for clearing skills. Yugul would push that to 106k.


If you're that desperate to cling to your unreasonable damage, there's a ring for lowering reflect damage. Or fortify. Or passive nodes. Or you could, you know, just focus a little more on defense and less on damage. Compromise.

thats pretty easy to hit on any skill that hits twice eg ice shot, shrapnel shot ice spear.
after yugul you would need the ring i guess thats okish (i dont like that as design but whatever.)


ice shot doesn't hit the same target twice without aoe overlap, ice spear doesn't hit twice on the same target period. Shrapnel's the only one of those with any semblance of a point, (although 'hitting twice' is not really a 'one-shot'), but if something is close enough to be hit by both of shrapnel's parts you damn well have the enemy on screen to know they've got reflect and can adjust accordingly.

Besides that, 80k damage from one skill use is well beyond overkill for clearing, even 50 damage per second (not per skill use) is pretty comfortable for clearing. So yeah. Unreasonably high damage. Try giving some of it up.
Last edited by Shppy on Nov 18, 2017, 8:42:44 PM
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Shppy wrote:
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Fhark wrote:
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Shppy wrote:
Oneshotted to reflect without 'unreasonable level' damage? Ha, i call bullshit. Even on a 4k life 75 res build without Yugul or any other damage taken mods would would need to deal 80000 damage in one hit to oneshot on a reflect mob. That's entirely unreasonable levels, especially for clearing skills. Yugul would push that to 106k.


If you're that desperate to cling to your unreasonable damage, there's a ring for lowering reflect damage. Or fortify. Or passive nodes. Or you could, you know, just focus a little more on defense and less on damage. Compromise.

thats pretty easy to hit on any skill that hits twice eg ice shot, shrapnel shot ice spear.
after yugul you would need the ring i guess thats okish (i dont like that as design but whatever.)


ice shot doesn't hit the same target twice without aoe overlap, ice spear doesn't hit twice on the same target period. Shrapnel's the only one of those with any semblance of a point, (although 'hitting twice' is not really a 'one-shot'), but if something is close enough to be hit by both of shrapnel's parts you damn well have the enemy on screen to know they've got reflect and can adjust accordingly.

Besides that, 80k damage from one skill use is well beyond overkill for clearing, even 50 damage per second (not per skill use) is pretty comfortable for clearing. So yeah. Unreasonably high damage. Try giving some of it up.

Yeah and the aoe overlap (cone dmg) happens a hell of a lot, i dont see why mechanically inferior clear skill's (compared to tornado shot, lightning arrow) should have to take double the reflect measures.
So that 50k which is very easy to get is in effect 100k pretty regularly. Also every defence mechanism is vastly inferior to pantheon/ring/ascendancy. I dont think thats good design you may, still thats only a few skills which would i like to see balanced with vp gone.
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Fhark wrote:
Yeah and the aoe overlap (cone dmg) happens a hell of a lot, i dont see why mechanically inferior clear skill's (compared to tornado shot, lightning arrow) should have to take double the reflect measures.



How is that double the reflect? LA has overlap too, way more so than ice shot. Tshot can potentially hit many times per attack. I genuinely don't get how you're thinking ice shot of all things somehow has to deal with higher amounts of reflect.
Last edited by Shppy on Nov 18, 2017, 9:16:10 PM
Because i have to cope with the cone damage, tornado shot is a lot of small hits and its easy to outleech reflect dmg, hell i used thiefs torment on a corrupted no leech map the other day and still survived a reflect monster with ts. Play ice shot for a few days and you will see how much reflect dmg you take compared to ts. You can also compare ts in path of building to ice shot so that 35k avg dmg for ts will be 43k for ice shot and then 43k again for the cone.
Last edited by Fhark on Nov 18, 2017, 9:42:01 PM
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Demonoz wrote:
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sidtherat wrote:
only builds that take their DPS to unreasonable levels can one-shot themselves vs reflect

cut down the DPS, use low-dmg setup for ofscreening, build any kind of defences vs your own damage (it is obvious, isnt it - you know what kills you yet you do what exactly?)

reflect is a speed bump this game needs. otherwise all we will see are stupid glass cannon meta uber speed meta clear (with Biscos) making economy saturated in 1 week after league starts

power creep 'we enjoy' ruins this game and reflect is one of the last obstacles before it all turns into clown fiesta clicker game


Wow what shitty solution... Like really who on earth plays ARPGs to purposely gimp their characters? No one!


Well, apparently you do? By focusing only on damage output, and not at all on defense, you put yourself in a position where one map mod, reflect, will wipe you out repeatedly. If that isn't "gimping your character", I don't know what is. It'd be the same as running with an "elemental defenses are zero" unique, and then complaining that elemental damage should be removed from the game.

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Demonoz wrote:
No one plays games like this to make their characters weak.. The entire point of games like this it to progress your character to as powerful as possible..


Seems like your definition of "weak" could use some reconsideration, in view of the existence of reflect? I mean, do you consider all those affixes spent on resists to be forcing you to make a "weak" character as well?

If not, what is the difference between elemental resist and reflect resist?
My 2 cents:

you chose a skill, and gear, and a build, and everything else. deal with what you created.
Don't like that you kill yourself? That extra defense/pantheon/ascendancy class/whatever doesn't look so useless now, does it? Make a compromise (less damage/swap some items/whatever) or deal with it.

In the past people also complained about light radius. Guess that stat on gear doesn't look so useless when you need it.
If you're dying to stuff (including yourself) that defense, evasion, resists, sybils, whatever doesn't look so bad when you need it.

If you're one-shotting everything, including yourself, destroying all bosses in 1-6 seconds, you could afford going back a couple notches on dps to make yourself actually live. Maybe the second weapon set can be 'junk' gear (less than 2ex) non-21/20 gems to only give you a puny 200k dps with 25k per hit. More than enough for mobs of any tier & reflect safe. boss time? press X.

Just because something poses a threat to the top 10% doesn't mean it's a bad mechanic, it helps keep things in check ever so slightly. Adapt or die (or suicide).
rawr. fear me.
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Fhark wrote:
Because i have to cope with the cone damage, tornado shot is a lot of small hits and its easy to outleech reflect dmg, hell i used thiefs torment on a corrupted no leech map the other day and still survived a reflect monster with ts. Play ice shot for a few days and you will see how much reflect dmg you take compared to ts. You can also compare ts in path of building to ice shot so that 35k avg dmg for ts will be 43k for ice shot and then 43k again for the cone.



Why do you keep bringing up the cone AND the initial hit? You realize the initial hit and the cone don't both hit the same target right? The cone hits behind the target whose collision with the arrow created the cone, the cone itself doesn't actually *hit* said target.
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Shppy wrote:
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Fhark wrote:
Because i have to cope with the cone damage, tornado shot is a lot of small hits and its easy to outleech reflect dmg, hell i used thiefs torment on a corrupted no leech map the other day and still survived a reflect monster with ts. Play ice shot for a few days and you will see how much reflect dmg you take compared to ts. You can also compare ts in path of building to ice shot so that 35k avg dmg for ts will be 43k for ice shot and then 43k again for the cone.



Why do you keep bringing up the cone AND the initial hit? You realize the initial hit and the cone don't both hit the same target right? The cone hits behind the target whose collision with the arrow created the cone, the cone itself doesn't actually *hit* said target.

you dont sound like youve ever played ice shot you take a shit ton of reflect dmg from it do you take the cone dmg every time no, but you can take both very easily eg hit one enemy infront cone hits the enemy behind who is also hit by another projectile, this will pretty much happen multiple times daily and more so if you use chain.
Last edited by Fhark on Nov 18, 2017, 11:51:39 PM

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